A little is ok
Ash Sarkar thinks it’s all just fine.
Nobody says it’s “en masse.” So what? Any is too much. “It’s just one guy cheating” is not a powerful argument.
Again: not the issue. Women shouldn’t be made to give up any of their opportunities to men.
Fair and square? A man in a women’s competition? What’s fair or square about that?
This also completely ignores the sheer TRENDYNESS of the trans movement. While not unheard of in 2003, I really don’t recall trans identity DOMINATING lefty discussion and focus so much.
It is not Laurel Hubbard, it is Gavin Hubbard. If we are to win, we must not concede the name change.
It’s just one person taking performance-enhancing drugs.
It’s just a couple of pitchers who are doctoring the ball.
He did blood doping, but he only moved up to third place he didn’t win.
Only one player is past the Little League age limit, and only by a few years, less than a decade even.
Yes, steroids are illegal, but these two guys are in a great race for the home run record, can’t we just look the other way and ignore the tainted records and results? The public is captivated, they love these guys.
I dunno, I think using a name lets people know who you’re actually talking about; people are allowed to change their names. Kind of ambiguous name that, like Corey or Ashley.
I think that saying “Gavin Hubbard is competing for NZ in the women’s weightlifting 87kg-plus category” is accurate, truthful, and defensible.
The most honest and straightforward way to refute the argument from a lack of trans dominance is to never engage the performance fairness argument in the first place. Every transwoman/tim who gets a spot on a team, in a tournament, or in a league represents a female denied that spot, a spot that was set aside for a female.
As for the statement that Hubbard has lost to women, I can only go by the results of sanctioned competitions Hubbard has entered since 2017. They have won gold in eight out of 13 and a silver in one. There are three DNF’s, one of which was in 2018 when she broke an elbow while leading the contest. One of the other DNF’s looks like it was an event that didn’t actually take place due to Covid. There is a sixth place in the 2019 World Champs in Thailand in 2019.
So, a bloke with testosterone suppressing drugs, in his 40’s, can pretty impressively (?) whip women in their 20’s, at a sport where people typically peak in their late 20’s.
Being beaten in training or minor champs simply doesn’t count. Top athletes train in cycles that mean they’re often beaten at unimportant champs.
A thousand cheats is bad, but even if there was only one cheat, that’s a person that has still cheated all the same.
Oh dear lord, they are not making the women accept him in the women’s locker room, are they?
And, in the highest weight division, Hubbard’s size alone puts him ahead of almost any woman in the field.
Notice we don’t see heroic trans-athletes competing at 49 kilos. And we have yet to see any trans MEN competing in any elite sport at all.
Let’s not be hasty.
And a little further down:
(As far as I can tell, Quinn has just one name.)
Now, if TWAW, then surely TMAM, and so these players should not be playing in a woman’s league, right?
This seems a clear case of wanting to have your cake and eat it. When it suits her she wants to play in a women’s team; but she wants want to be considered a man when she wants that. Or maybe I’m not understanding her point of view.
This appears to directly contradict what the TWAW and let transgirls play girls sports crowd keep shouting about. They claims biology is wrong and bad and their physical reality doesn’t make them men.
In short, more double standards…and, as always, they work in favor of men.
The reason Trans women haven’t competed in the Olympics before is because sex reassignment surgery was required, and very few trans women get SRS. This is the first olympics where SRS is not required.
And now there are two.
NY Post: Transgender BMX rider for Team USA reportedly vowed to ‘burn’ US flag on medal podium
Athel Cornish-Bowden #12
Oh yeah? How do they know? Did someone do an actual scientific survey that distinguished clearly between “gender identity” and sex, started from a clearly defined set of criteria of what it means to think or feel like a “man” or “woman” respectively, and found that most people really do meet said criteria?
It wren’t me wot said that: I just quoted the BBC’s sports writer.
I know, it wasn’t meant as a retort to anything you said. Just a rhetorical question to point out an unjustified assumption by the writer :)
Imma dispute that…
No, of course not, don’t be ridiculous. That’s the sort of question One Must Not Ask.
It doesn’t help that the sort of question you are apparently Permitted To Ask reads more like “Which gender do you identify as? Male, Female, Nonbinary, Other?” or “What is your sex? Feminine, Masculine, Nonbinary, Other?” Phrasing questions in such a manipulative manner means that “most people” can’t give an accurate answer and any collection of responses is misleading. “Most people” are quite likely to try to answer a multiple choice question with the best of the bad choices presented… so, see? Everyone has a Gender Identity! Everyone agrees that your behaviour determines your sex! And the like :-/
ibbica #19
There is a way to interpret the quoted sentence to make it technically accurate, although I very much doubt that it’s the interpretation the writer had in mind. The key phrase here is “unless they’re non-binary”. Since the “binary” in Genderspeak doesn’t refer to biological sex but an alleged split into people who think or feel in “feminine” vs. “masculine” ways best left unspecified, anyone who fails to think or feel in any of these ways have to be considered “non-binary” pretty much by definition. That sure as hell includes me and, I strongly suspect, pretty much everyone else apart from TIMs and TIFs. It’s roughly analogous to saying:
“Most people, unless they’re non-Muslims, have a religion of Sunni or Shia.”
(Apart from the fact that there are almost certainly more Muslims that “binary” people in the Genderspeak sense).
I recently cancelled my monthly donation to a charity I had been supporting for years and unsubscribed from their mailing list after they did a survey (mostly about other topics) with exactly this kind of manipulative and misleading phrasing in it. In the excerpt quoted by Athel, though, I strongly suspect that the writer hasn’t even done that much work, shoddy as it is, but is simply taking for granted that anyone who doesn’t actively self-identify as “non-binary” is implicitly embracing a male or female “gender identity” with all it’s implicit claims about what’s going on inside their heads.
(And apart from the fact that most people do at the very least have a religion, while it’s far from clear that most people have a “gender identity”)
*more Muslims than “binary” people
Arrrgh!
Reminds me of:
https://www.jesusandmo.net/comic/special/