Secrets of the Dalai Lama
Here’s a useful item lifted from a comment on Jerry Coyne’s post on Anthony Grayling on the Dalai Lama. The comment is by Michael Kingsford Gray, who has been making sweeping and wrong generalizations about philosophers at Jerry’s, but all due credit to him for the useful item:
1) Who told a press conference in 1997 that men to men sex and woman to woman sex is sexual misconduct?
The Pope, or the Dalai Lama?
2) Who told a Swiss magazine in 2001, that sexual organs were created for the reproduction of the male element and the female element, and anything that deviates from this is not acceptable?
The Pope, or the Dalai Lama?
3) An anti-abortion lobby group called “Consistent life” was given a huge boost after on of the world’s most prominent religious leaders offered his endorsement?
The Pope, or the Dalai Lama?
4) Who published a collection of religious teachings declaring that masturbation is forbidden?
The Pope, or the Dalai Lama?
5) Who declared that oral sex is not acceptable, even between a husband and wife?
The Pope, or the Dalai Lama?
6) Who published a collection of religious teachings in 1996 declaring that anal sex is not acceptable, even between a husband and wife?
The Pope, or the Dalai Lama?
7) Who said that having sex during the day is sexual misconduct?
The Pope, or the Dalai Lama?
Of course, every single answer is: The Dalai Lama.
That usually throw these happy-go-lucky Buddhist wanna be for a six!
(Especially the ban on daytime sex.
The Pope is far more liberal on many of these issues)
_________________
References:
1. San Francisco Chronicle, 11 June 1997
2. Dimanche magazine, Jan 2001
3. Reuters, 22 Jan 2001
4, 5, 6 & 7. “Beyond Dogma (The challenge of the modern world)” by the Dalai Lama (1996)**
I referenced this comment yesterday over at For the Sake of Science blog. (Or was that this morning?)
That list is drawn from an Australian show called John Safran vs. God. Despite the title, it wasn’t an atheistic show per se, but it did have a few good pieces like <a href=”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kstH-8jwa80″>the segment that list came from</a> and <a href=”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U58wgn-9Y3c”>Atheist Door-Knocking</a>.
Direct links to the videos James K mentioned:
John Safran Vs. God – The Pope Vs. The Dalai Lama (relates to the OP)
John Safran Atheist door knocking skit (an extra simply for the humour)
[…] to Butterflies and Wheels and […]
Ah, thanks for the credit. Tut, Michael, you ought to have credited the show.
Thanks for setting up the links Stephen, I didn’t realise html wouldn’t work until it was too late.
Well, I’ve learnt Buddhism starting about 8 years ago, I dunno where DL found any teaching that support his stance, but I’ll try to clarify some things:
Men to men sex and woman to woman sex is sexual misconduct?
The Buddha never stated that homosexuality is a misconduct, he only stated categories of man/woman that if we have sex with will break the third precept, which is about sexual misconduct, they are (not in order): man/woman still under care of his/her parents, married man/woman, Bhikkhu/Bhikkuni, … (can’t remember the other one on top of my head, but definitely nothing about same-sex)
Sexual organs were created for the reproduction of the male element and the female element, and anything that deviates from this is not acceptable?
Nothing about that mentioned in the teaching.
Masturbation is forbidden?
Nothing about that is mentioned in teaching.
Oral sex is not acceptable, even between a husband and wife?
Okay, the Buddha stated that there are three organs that if you connect(?) with sexual intention (I have to put in ‘intention’ because only acts with intention that is consider valid to produce karma/kamma) then you conduct a sexual act, they are (correct me if I’m wrong): mouth, anus, and the penis/vagina. So that also answer about anal sex.
Having sex during the day is sexual misconduct?
Nothing about it mentioned in the teaching.
Well, I hope that clarify these things about sex. I am not answering for the DL, just explaining from what I’ve learnt about Buddhism about sex topic
I am sure if the dalai lama was actually asked one question then the problem of all these atheists would have been solved.
The question is “why?”
I can answer for him though. It is because these acts impede your progress to “nirvana” loosely traslated as salvation. Actually a release from the cycles of birth and death the cycle of karma.
Before you challenge why one type of sexual action is permitted and the other not better ask a question do you in fact believe in karma. If that itself is not believed why bother with the specifics?
I see a big problem in all these comments. An unwillingness to accept that fundamentally religion involves acceptence of some tenets. I really wish i can have a email discusion one on one with one or two of you. My name is given. Google me
lakshmikumar
Thank you for clarifying, Ming.
s t, I think we do accept, that is to say we realize, that religion involves acceptance of some tenets. That is part of what we tend to criticize – the idea that any tenets should be just accepted, as a price of entry.
The reason for bothering with the specifics even if we don’t believe in karma (which I certainly don’t) is because the specifics do harm to people. Religious belief that homosexuality is Wrong in some mysterious religious sense does harm to people who are homosexual because it props up existing prejudice against homosexuality. You could say that the DL is talking just to Buddhists, or just to Tibetan Buddhists, but it doesn’t work that way: what he said is public, so it can’t be contained.
The Buddha and the Dalai Lama are entitled to give whatever “teachings” they wish, but it looks as though there’s not much reason for others to take them seriously. I’ve had my eyes opened about the Dalai Lama, thanks to whoever first compiled this list.
I love the idea that most of these rules are taken from a book called Beyond Dogma. SPOING!
Who said:
However, such proscriptions are for members of the Buddhist faith – and from “society’s viewpoint,” homosexual sexual relations can be “of mutual benefit, enjoyable, and harmless,”
The Dalai Lama, or the Pope?
And guess who said
“His Holiness was greatly concerned by reports made available to him regarding violence and discrimination against gay and lesbian people. His Holiness opposes violence and discrimination based on sexual orientation. He urges respect, tolerance, compassion, and the full recognition of human rights for all,”
It’s easy to selectively quote. But sometimes there is a more complicated story.
[…] seems like a very intelligent, generally rational, and genuinely compassionate person on the whole, despite embracing some appallingly narrow-minded sexual mores. But good people can and sometimes do have horrible ideas. And while the character of the beliefs […]
[…] […]