No you may not learn about ethics, you little heathen
Apparently church groups in Australia think that if you’re not doing something churchy then you shouldn’t be doing anything at all.
At the moment, an archaic clause in NSW’s Education Act prohibits students who opt out of scripture from being taught anything while others receive religious instruction. At some schools, that means more than half the students are basically doing nothing…The NSW Federation of Parents and Citizens Association (P&C) has funded the St James Centre for Ethics to develop a pilot program to teach ethics to students who don’t want to learn scripture. But the program had barely crossed the Education Minister’s desk before the Government’s religious education advisory panel sounded the alarm. Approving the proposal would require the Parliament to kill that archaic clause, and the churches clearly fear this may be the crest of a very slippery slope.
A……slope to where, exactly? What is the slope that leads from an ethics class to…perdition? A tank full of broken glass? Life as a banker who moonlights as a prostitute?
The current arrangement goes back over a century to when the State took over public education from the Catholic Church. The public of that time was more worried that the State, not the Church, had too much control over education.
Oh, so that’s it. They used to have a monopoly, and when the monopoly was taken away, they were still allowed to keep a little piece of it. They want to go on keeping it, so they don’t want any competion for their ‘scripture’ classes. Yet another example of the instinctive generosity of the religious.
You offer a sophisticated account, and here I thought they were just being stupid and bureaucratic. I’m trying to get into the head of one of the students who isn’t allowed to do anything while the others memorize the books of the Bible backwards. . .
I know! Offer medieval arts and crafts instead of doing nothing, and make shrouds of Turin!
‘Life as a banker who moonlights as a prostitute?’
Surely that should be the other way round? I mean, imagine the prostitute’s shame if their sordid other life were revealed.
Minor point of order. New South Wales isn’t all of Australia. Though those new south Welshmen and women might think so.
I was educated in the southern state of Victoria, which obviously is more advanced and noble than the mid north of eastern Australia and much more than the deep north too. Which is why those ruffians from NSW and Queensland call us Mexicans. I don’t think they have prayer stuff in state schools in this stately state. Not that I’d know. I went to catholic schools and had RE a few times each week for 12 years. Didn’t learn a thing, and I believe I did nothing in RE classes so, 6 of one, half-dozen of the other……
No I know…I didn’t mean in Australia, I meant in Australia. It would be useful to have two different ‘in’s for that. I wanted to say New South Wales except if northern hemisphere types read that before their coffee they might get confused, and adding Australia would look too Time-magazine-ish. In the same way I would probably say X happened in the US instead of Idaho – or I might not if the Idahoishness were part of the picture. The NSWishness doubtless is part of the picture but I know nothing about that!
Surely learning about scripture and doing nothing are of equal value?
That would be delicious. And to Ace the class your craftwork needs to be indistinguishable from the original by all methods that don’t simultaneously reveal original’s age.
I’m waiting on the shroud of the FSM now. Shouldn’t be too long.
Hi Opelia, I sort of got what you meant, but couldn’t help myself from indulging in a bit of bashing of my northern brethren. God bless their oily hides. You can’t blame me, north Queensland has Coconut trees! I like Coconuts. It’s enough to bring out the envy.
Bastards, NSW bastards, hogging all the coconuts, bastards.
They got no ethics!
I think those bastards from NSW only have shipped in coconuts like us Victorians. Not being tropical in NSW seems to be the problem. But those Queenslanders! Don’t get me started. Tropical weather, coconuts. Did I mention coconuts? Whoops, I started…..
I think you have to read the actual clauses to realise the utter inanity of this policy:
“(3) Schools are to support SRE by ensuring that no formal lessons or scheduled school activities occur during time set aside for SRE. Such activities may create conflict of choice for some parents and for some students attending SRE.
(11) Schools are to provide appropriate care and supervision at school for students not attending SRE. This may involve students in other activities such as completing homework, reading and private study. These activities should neither compete with SRE nor be alternative lessons in the subjects within the curriculum or other areas, such as, ethics, values, civics or general religious education. When
insufficient teachers or accommodation are available, the school’s policy on minimal supervision will operate.”
You should also read the actual response from ICCOREIS which is something of a masterpiece in responding while avoiding the entire issue:
http://www.iccoreis.asn.au/documents/290909ICCOREISEthicsResponse.pdf
They make 6 points in their response, none of which even hints at a justification for the existing policy!
I particularly like this one:
“Whilst one may appreciate the goodwill of the St James Ethics Centre and their supporters, surely this matter has to be addressed by the DET, in consultation with all interested parties, in a way which best enhances the purpose of the SRE period in the school curriculum.”
The obvious response is that the SRE period, as it is currently conducted, has NO purpose in the school curriculum.
I don’t know if such policy exists elsewhere in Australia. In the Northern Territory, we have this:
“Religious instruction is NOT included in the curriculum of NT Government schools and teachers and other members of staff are not required to participate in religious instruction classes. It is left to the discretion of the Principal as to the time(s) to be made available and how the religious instruction will fit in with the rest of the school program.”
Point of order: Plenty of coconuts outside of NSW; they’re falling off the trees all other place here (NT).
Keith, don’t ruin my rant with facts. This is typical of the fascist scientistic mindset. you demand evidence, logical conclusions and thinking. Where’s room for the ineffable coconut that points to a coconut beyond any existing coconut? It’s a symbol you know. Nobody in history of coconuts have thought that they really exist. Next you’ll be asking me to be reasonable!
By the way, I have 6 coconut saplings in my bathroom here in Melbourne. I’m planning on being the southernmost coconut farmer in this fine country. Just need to solve the problem of housing plants that grow tens of meters tall and require constant warmth and humidity. I’ll show ’em who’s a loon!
OK, I’ll go to the corner now.
Coconuts do grow in Northern NSW, though not commercially. But it`s the nuts in Parliament who worry me.
Odd place, NSW. Probably the most corrupt government in the English-speaking world – there`s hardly a Cabinet Minister who doesn’t belong in stripy pajamas, breaking rocks. And yet they also get the most ridiculous and unbecoming attacks of wowserism and religiosity.
Having been a lifelong voter either Labor or left of Labor, I`m actually for the first time in my life going to vote for the Libs, just to get rid of them.
Labor may put up the Christina Kenneally, the woman who organised the Popealooza Tour (World Catholic Youth Day, Sydney) as their next leader. The law against saying anything that might annoy a “pilgrim” was her idea. Which will mean they can’t be voted for, ever. Yuck, and alas poor NSW.
NSW does seem to have a lot of dodgy pollies and religiosity. Then again, the pollies here are all in the pocket of merchant bankers their public-private partnerships. Soon well be paying 4 times as much for water due to the desal. plant (privately run but underwritten by the public so the big end of town makes a motza) when we’re pumping billions of liters of recycled water into the sea 100 kms from the desal. plant’s intake. Madness. I think I’ll emigrate to a deserted tropical Island and form a coconut or banana republic.
There is an interesting discussion of this to be read at http://newmatilda.com/2009/10/06/dumbest-education-policy-australia#comments
It strikes me that kids sitting in a class discussing ethics (ie philosophy) are likely to stray into other areas and finish up applying the principles they learn to those areas, like politics – which is definitely off limits in secondary education; and to the foundations of any and all religions.
Ethics deals mainly with the question “what should I do?’ Politics with ‘what should we do?’ The two are not so far apart.
What is ‘the good life?’ is a question answerable in some terms at practically any age. Whereas ‘what is faith?’ can open up a real can of worms.
Hence the knee-jerk reaction of the churches to ethics classes may at least be understandable, given the siege mentality they so commonly display.
Western Australia does not have this semi mandatory scripture thing in state schools. We did in the 1960s but my kids didn’t get it (1999 on).