Defining sexism downwards
I did not know – some male students at St Paul’s College at the University of Sydney set up a pro-rape Facebook page.
The group, which was named “Define Statutory”, described its members as “anti-consent” and was listed in the sports and recreation section of the site…It was shut down at the end of [October], but had been live on Facebook since August, according to an investigation by the Sydney Morning Herald…The Sydney Morning Herald said the page was part of a broader culture at the residential colleges that “demeans women in a sexist and often sexually violent way”.
And here I was fuming (or should I say bitching?) about sexist epithets and men who type thousands of words insisting that ‘stupid bitch’ is not sexist. Kind of puts it all in perspective. Except actually I think it’s (broadly speaking) all part of the same thing. I think both items are part of a broader culture in a lot of places that demeans women in a sexist way. I think the bizarro phenomenon of men who ought to know better verbally spewing on women whenever they feel like it is pretty much by definition part of a broader culture that demeans women in a sexist way. That’s why it shocks me that men give themselves permission to do that – it reveals that contempt for women is commonplace in areas where I would have thought it had gone out of fashion decades ago.
But no – apparently it’s still seen as hip and edgy and funny to treat women like dirt. Apparently sexism is being defined downwards so that it isn’t really sexism unless, I don’t know, it comes with a signed affidavit stating This Is Sexism. Rod Liddle apparently is of that school, unless he really didn’t post this on a Millwall fans’ website:
Stupid bitch. A year eight sociology lecture from someone who knows fck all. You could equally say that we were similar to any group which disliked a certain aspect of society, felt estranged from it but were sure we were right. The logical extension of her argument is that the status quo is always right, which is absurd, because if that were true nothing would change. Someone kick her in the cnt.
He was there commenting right after I had, so I asked him if that one was his, saying bitches with cunts would like to know. He said
I don’t remember saying it and it certainly doesn’t read like me, but it’s quite possible that at some point I might use that temrinology to make a certain point, perhaps the opposite to the one you imagine. Just as you have done, right now. “Bitches with cunts would like to know” is a canny, sardonic pay off to your post. Take it out of context and what have you got?
I don’t know, but what you haven’t got is ‘I wouldn’t say shit like that in a million years.’ Instead you have men earnestly explaining the terrifically subtle and fascinating difference between saying ‘stupid nigger’ and saying ‘stupid bitch,’ a subtle difference that boils down to: the first is absolutely out and the second is really quite all right and you’re being a dreary fanatic if you say it isn’t. Which boils down to saying casual contempt for other races is not okay and casual contempt for women is fine.
I think this is topical/typical. “Dr Peter Cameron, formerly of neighbouring St Andrew’s college, wrote, “Finishing School for Blokes.” According to one reviewer, Cameron described the all-male colleges at the university as ”repositories of a blokey culture that marginalises women as sex objects and demeans them”. St Pauls College ‘sexism’ Richard Ackland.
Gosh, its way past my bedtime and I have to get up up really early.
Wow. First the Notre Dame pro-gay-bashing comic strip, and now a pro-rape facebook page from another elite university.
What’s next? Pro-lynching parties at Vanderbilt?
anti-consent. . .
Those young Australians sound very grown up. Jesus H Christ.
I notice that the article did not mention any action taken against the students involved, only that the FB page had been taken down. I’d like to have seen the list of names published in the Sydney Morning Herald, so that all could know just which “future leaders” were involved…
Trouble with Rod Liddle is he’s never going to get beyond the emotional age of 14. Pity, the bloke’s got a brain – but it’s now so full of self-indulgent faux-iconoclastic crap that it’s of little use to him or anyone else.
It is a minor power-trip from males with abysmally low self-esteem, and no potential for earned social standing of any sort, so they must obtain it via membership of a tribal group of fellow mysoginsts, who conflate attention with approval.
That does not excuse it, merely go part-way to explaining the base phenomenon.
Sounds a bit like a chain chicken-cackle over a piece of stupidity by a very tiny group of idiots.
I went to a residential college probably like that one, and demeaning attitudes to women certainly were normal among some alcohol-fuelled male student groups. This probably reflects an unpleasant characteristic of teenage male group behaviour. For some funny reason there is a bit of that at University residences.
But OB’s point is all the more important: College f***wits do not and never have defined an acceptable standard for language about race or gender. The widespread use of this degrading language in internet discussion is particularly nasty.
There’s an interesting perspective on the pro-rape site given by Legless on his blog: http://legless123.livejournal.com/tag/pro-rape .
Bluntly, he doesn’t buy the story in the way it’s been reported.
“self-indulgent faux-iconoclastic crap” – good phrase.
“the Notre Dame pro-gay-bashing comic strip”
Something else I didn’t know about!
Well, Greg T., since Mr Liddle is on record (in his last Sunday Times column) as saying we should all be allowed to express vile and obnoxious opinions about one another, I presume he’d never be a hypocrite and try to censor free speech when it concerns himself. So, fire away!
Autumn Sandeen at Pam’s House Blend did a blog entry on it:
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/14841/we-get-lgbt-hate-from-a-student-newspaper-at-notre-dame
And this, too:
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/14858/notre-dame-newspaper-issues-weak-apology-over-gay-bashing-cartoon
You’re re-banned, Tingey. And no don’t fire away – until B&W moves, nothing potentially libelous can be posted here. UK libel law is no joke.
Thanks Wes.
Iain, the Legless post was interesting – but is it plausible? Makes it sound as if the SMH reporters just made it all up. That happens, but it’s rare.
@Ophelia – I see your point, but there’s a middle way between accurate reporting and making stuff up, which is that they found something mildly diverting (“Oooh, look, here’s an unusual and potentially offensive use of the word ‘rape’…”) and, on a slow news day, and in the course of editorial oversight, it got sexed up.
Oh, bugger. “Sexed up” was probably not the best turn of phrase in this context, was it?
Hmmph. Read “got elaborated somewhat” instead.
I should add that the College Mummers did a production of ‘Medea’ last year, which perhaps was compensation and penance in advance for their fellow students’ Facebook exercise.
Recently, there was some very large graffiti around the corner from my house saying “No means harder.” I actually felt personally threatened, as I do when I hear of cases like the pro-rape FB page. I think I have good reason to feel so, as misogyny is obviously still rife and not called out nearly enough. I think you’ve nailed it Ophelia, and I’m glad you’ve kept your sights trained on this issue.
Ewwwwww Emily.
Iain, sure, but there’s only that one blogger’s word for it that that’s what the group was about. It could have been sexed up/elaborated (heh) or not. I dunno.
There’s an interesting perspective on the pro-rape site given by Legless on his blog
I don’t see what you found interesting about his comment. His whole argument was based on his opinion that, “I couldn’t believe that, … someone would set-up a pro-rape group.” That and his claim that the word rape is sometimes used in other contexts, football, or video games perhaps. Big deal, rape is also a plant, does he think maybe it was a gardening group?
Let’s see, the commander of the NSW Police sex crimes squad, Detective Superintendent John Kerlatec, said when operational, the Facebook page – tagged ”pro-rape, anti-consent” – was ”inciting people to sexual violence”. Do you really think the head of the sex crimes squad was up in arms over a football, or video game site?
This “interesting perspective” looks like nothing more than weak, pallid excuses for abysmal behavior.
Sigh. I got it again tonight. In an atheist chat room. Some ass started calling things “gay.” When I called him out on it, he defended it by saying “Not ‘gay’ as in like you, but like the old school meaning – ‘goofy.'”
The old school meaning?
I asked him if he’d mind if I used the term “nigger” to indicate all offensive people, you know, in the old-school, non-offensive way. He flounced out of the room after pronouncing me “hypersensitive.”
Dear sweet Jeezis, I hate people sometimes.
Sometimes misanthropy is the only thing that keeps me going…
Is it just me, or is the most offensive thing here the egregious misuse of the phrase ‘old school’ to describe something which is quite the opposite?
It’s just me, isn’t it? I’ll get my coat…
The old school meaning of ‘gay’ is cheerful, upbeat, not-a-care-in-world. ‘Madly gay, Archie, mady gay.’ Using the word to mean ‘goofy’ or similar is new and naff.
It’s also very fashionable among the thickly egotistical young, for whom so much of our wonderful popular culture exists.
Argh, Josh.
And the standard bearers for ‘it’s all about ME’ sexism-defending males are back in force on the thread on Maia’s interview with (cough) me at Dawkins’s site. Once again it’s all about them and their investment in ‘bitch is not sexist.’ Blegh.
Dave – no, it’s not just you. I loathe the phrase “old school” mainly because it’s so damned popular and hence, meaningless. And misapplied.
Val – Yes and yes, about egotistical, thick-headed youth. Some of that is just a characteristic of youth itself; I was certainly like that to some extent.
But yes, it does seem the very young today are even more extremely unaware that anything existed before they were born than my generation was. I suppose everyone says that as they get older. But I’m only 35 – close enough to my extreme youth to remember it without too much haze. And old enough to understand what it was that adults found so obnoxious about teenagers like me.
OB – Yeah, here we go again with the defenders of sexism. I really, really hate people.