Puts it in a very binary way

More tribunal:

AR – you agreed its transphobic to say that a person with a female body can be a gay man.

R – yes
AR – you believe that it is transphobic to say that gay men do not have sex with people with female bodies.
R – its not for me to say who should have sex with anyone. 

Naughty. That’s not the issue. The issue is definitions.

AR – I’m not talking about individuals. Is it a transphobic statement in general?

R – that puts it in a very binary way and I’m not sure I agree.

But that’s the whole point. The trans ideology does put it in a very binary way: it does shun and punish and exclude people for the crime of saying gay men do not have sex with people with female bodies. That’s what this hearing is about.

AR – anyone with a female body who is attracted to men is a heterosexual, that is an opinion held by many

R – there will be some who believe that
AR – you think it’s bigotry?
R – we are talking about preferences there and its up to that individual
AR – the view that someone with a female body attracted to men, is a heterosexual woman, that is inconsistent with the values of your organisations? 

R – yes, that is inconsistent with our values.

The truth at last.

AR – the phrase ‘same sex attraction’ had fallen out of currency until LGB Alliance was formed.

PR – yes, but practice was mixed.
AR – Stonewall formed using the term Same sex attraction’.
PR yes
AR – you say it’s not meant to be exclusionary but by its very nature it excludes people who are not same sex attracted.
PR – the difficulty is that it makes sex and gender binary
AR you no longer advocate for people for who are same sex attracted 

PR – we do advocate for them
AR – you advocate for same gender attraction not same sex

PR – we advocate for LGB trans people
AR – stonewall glossary, ‘homosexuality is a medical term for those who are attracted to the same gender’
PR – yes
AR – gender is to do with masculinity and femininity and are culturally determined. If it is culturally determined then it is not innate.
PR yes
AR – a man could be feminine and a woman could be masculine.
PR – people are who they are

Tautological but true, and men are not women.

AR – being attracted to people of the same gender is very different from being same sex attracted.
PR – I do not see the world as that binary.
AR – describes lesbian couples that may be one butch and one femme, aren’t they a straight couple based on gender identity?
PR – I don’t believe there are many lesbian couples like that (Outburst from spectators)

Hahahahaha I just bet there was.

AR – but will you not acknowledge that people who believe in same sex attraction exist?

PR – I believe if someone is denying the human rights of a trans person, that is transphobic.
AR – are you suggesting that Fanshawe and Harris are denying Human rights to trans people?
PR – I’m not accusing anyone of that, I’m not a legal expert.

AR – you exclude anyone who wishes to describe LGB as same sex attracted?
PR – we exclude organisations that would exclude trans men and trans women.
AR – that’s a yes, then
PR – yes. 

There you go.

Putative LGB organizations exclude actual LGB organizations that don’t pretend trans people are literally and for all purposes the sex they are not. The “rights” of trans people to be “validated” now trump the rights of LGB people to be same-sex attracted.

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