Tag: Martina Navratilova

Lady Mondegreen emailed Athlete Ally letting them know what she thinks of their dismissal of Martina Navratilova. They sent her a crap reply, to which she responded. She shared both on Facebook and gave me permish to post it here.

From: Athlete Ally Info <info@athleteally.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 8:31:21 AM

As an organization, we are committed to upholding LGBTQ equality in and through sport, and advocating for the inclusion of trans athletes is a critical part of that work.

In her article, Navratilova stated that trans women are men who “decide to be female,” and that to allow them to compete with women is “insane and it’s cheating… it is surely unfair on women who have to compete against people who, biologically, are still men.”

Transgender or Trans people are people whose gender identity is different from the gender they were assigned at birth. Trans women did not “decide” to be female. Transphobia is perpetuated by misinformation such as this.

There’s a difference between competitive and unfair advantage. As of now, sports are divided in a very binary way. For a trans male athlete to compete as a woman, you’re essential telling that athlete to disregard who they are, how they live, and the gender identity they’ve worked hard their whole life to understand and identify. It’s not a choice for them- it’s a fundamental part of who they are.

The topic of testosterone is complex, and there’s still not a lot understood or known about testosterone’s effects on the body, though we do know that every individual responds to testosterone differently. Our organizational stance is that participation of all athletes, and their human rights, should be respected and protected. We have no evidence at all that the average trans woman is any bigger, stronger, or faster than the average cisgender woman, but there is evidence that often when you lower testosterone through hormone replacement therapy, performance goes down.

In our statement, we link to the data that shows that often when athletes lower testosterone through hormone replacement therapy, performance goes down. Specifically, see paragraphs 2-3 on page 6 of the study, also copied below.

Transgender women who have undertaken testosterone suppression change from normal male testosterone levels to normal female levels, in fact, after surgery their testosterone levels are below the mean for 46,XX women (Gooren and Bunck, 425–429). Largely as a result of their vastly reduced testosterone levels, transgender women lose strength, speed, and virtually every other component of athletic ability.

Since this study looks at endurance capabilities of athletes both pre and post testosterone suppression, it is also of significant interest to look at hematocrit or hemoglobin levels of transgender women. One year after testosterone suppression, hemoglobin levels in transgender women fell from 9.3 mmol/l to 8.0 mmol/l. This latter number is statistically identical to the mean hemoglobin level for cisgender women (Gooren and Bunck 425–429).

There are so many levels of complexity that go into the question of competitive advantage. Think about all of the other ways athletes have competitive advantage — access to better coaches and facilities; money to pay for nutritionists, recovery services, etc. At the highest levels of sport, physical characteristics can only get you so far — you also need serious technical skill to be able to beat top competitors from around the world.

Trans athletes aren’t competing because they want to win every trophy and all the prize money and kick women out of sports. They’re competing because, like anyone else, they love their sport. We think it’s fundamentally wrong to force them to go against who they are in order for them to take part in the sport they love. To say that by doing so they’re being unfair, cheating and even “making a choice” is not just wrong- it paints a picture of trans people that stirs up hatred and bigotry, when this population is already being targeted and attacked daily.

It is simply a myth that trans women athletes have an unfair advantage or are taking over women’s sport. Trans athletes are not seeking to take anything away from cis athletes. Trans athletes have been allowed to openly compete in the Olympics since 2003, and yet no transgender athlete has ever gone to the Olympics. Professional trans women athletes are extremely rare. Trans athletes simply want to participate in the sport they love, like any other athlete. Nothing about that is “insane” or “cheating”.

The International Olympic Committee developed a consensus on trans athlete participation in 2015, which stipulates conditions for transgender athletes to compete. We think this is definitely preferable to barring an entire population from having access to the sport they love.

We have a longstanding history of championing women’s rights in sports, from our successful #WomenInFIFA campaign which sought to remedy the staggering under-representation and under-resourcing of women in soccer, to our 2017 partnership with Shirzanan, a media and advocacy organization for Muslim female athletes, on a campaign demanding that FIBA (the world governing body of basketball) immediately overturn its discriminatory headgear ban adversely affecting observant Muslim women wearing hijab. We stand in full support of women in sports, and all LGBTQ people in sport. We believe all women, which includes trans women, deserve full access to sport.

We have and will continue to have tremendous respect for the legacy of icons like Martina, however we believe that one’s platform should be used to promote inclusion and respect for all.

Lady M’s reply:

You replied to me:

In her article, Navratilova stated that trans women are men who ‘decide to be female,’ and that to allow them to compete with women is ‘insane and it’s cheating… it is surely unfair on women who have to compete against people who, biologically, are still men.’

Transgender or Trans people are people whose gender identity is different from the gender they were assigned at birth. Trans women did not ‘decide’ to be female. Transphobia is perpetuated by misinformation such as this.

In fact, very little is known, scientifically, about gender dysphoria. But let’s be clear: “transgender” is an ideological term, not a scientific one, and there is NO good science behind trans activists’ claims about gender identity.

In any case, trans women are not female.

There’s a difference between competitive and unfair advantage. As of now, sports are divided in a very binary way.

Yes. Because male and females are physiologically distinct, we binarily divide athletes by sex in sports where greater male strength and speed give men advantages over women.

For a trans male athlete to compete as a woman, you’re essential telling that athlete to disregard who they are, how they live, and the gender identity they’ve worked hard their whole life to understand and identify. It’s not a choice for them-

Your emotional appeal is beside the point, and you know it. Trans women are males.

Tell me, are trans men beating males in cycling or tennis or basketball?

Why the difference, do you think? Surely trans men have “worked hard” to “understand and identify” their “gender identity”.

Could there be a factor that has nothing to do with “identity” at play here?

You also say that trans women do not wish to take over women’s sports. Again, that is a red herring. Whether or not they wish to “take over” women’s sports, they will take spots from female athletes.

How transgender males identify is none of my business. They are still males. Their performance while on hormone therapy may be lower than it was before, but they retain advantages in size, muscle mass, lung capacity, etc.

You then refer to the IOC guidelines and link to a study. THE VERY STUDY DISCUSSED IN THE LINK I PROVIDED.

Again: the link I provided details the scientific problems with the study used by the IOC.

You have confirmed that you care more about ideology than honesty, science, fairness, or women and girls (i.e., female human beings.)

You did Martina a favor. She deserves better than to be associated with your organization.

That’s disgusting.

Navratilova’s recent comments are transphobic, based on a false data, and perpetuate dangerous myths that lead to the ongoing targeting of trans people. She has been removed from our Advisory Board and as an Athlete Ally Ambassador, effective immediately. https://t.co/A1taa40ihv

— Athlete Ally (@AthleteAlly) February 19, 2019

The full statement:

Athlete Ally unequivocally stands on the side of trans athletes and their right to access and compete in sport free from discrimination. Martina Navratilova’s recent comments on trans athletes are transphobic, based on a false understanding of science and data, and perpetuate dangerous myths that lead to the ongoing targeting of trans people through discriminatory laws, hateful stereotypes and disproportionate violence. As an organization dedicated to addressing root causes of homophobia and transphobia in and through sport, we will only affiliate with those committed to the same goal, and not those who further misinformation or discrimination in any way. Given this, Navratilova has been removed from our Advisory Board and as an Athlete Ally Ambassador, effective immediately.

Within her op-ed in the Sunday Times, Navratilova referred to trans women as men who “decide to be female,” and that to allow them to compete with women is “cheating and unfair.” First of all, trans women are women, period. They did not decide their gender identity any more than someone decides to be gay, or to have blue eyes. There is no evidence at all that the average trans woman is any bigger, stronger, or faster than the average cisgender woman, but there is evidence that often when athletes lower testosterone through hormone replacement therapy, performance goes down.

Italics mine. Seriously?

Trans women athletes aren’t looking to take over women’s sport. They are women, and want to compete in the sport they love, just as any other athlete would. In fact, they’re largely underrepresented. Trans athletes have been allowed to openly compete in the Olympics since 2003, and yet no transgender athlete has ever gone to the Olympics. Professional trans women athletes are extremely rare.

Public figures like Martina Navratilova have an incredible platform provided to them, and when they speak, the world listens. When we launched our Ambassador program in 2011 and invited Martina to join us, we saw her as a trailblazer for LGBTQ people in sports—someone who, like us, believed in the power of sport to advance equality, dismantle stereotypes, and build a more inclusive society.

Martina’s latest statements stand in stark contrast to that vision, and to our core beliefs and values as an organization. We live in a world where 1 in 4 trans people are assaulted simply for being trans, and bills across the United States are seeking to dehumanize trans people and prevent them from accessing the rights they deserve. The trans community is under attack, and we firmly stand opposed to any and all people who perpetuate attacks against them—regardless of who they are or their accolades. To spread misinformation is to create a ripple effect of bias and discrimination that restricts trans people from living their lives fully, and endangers their health, safety and livelihood.

Navratilova isn’t “perpetuating attacks” against trans people. Not accepting people’s counter-factual claims about themselves is not attacking them.

This is not the first time we have approached Martina on this topic. In late December, she made deeply troubling comments across her social media channels about the ability for trans athletes to compete in sport. We reached out directly offering to be a resource as she sought further education, and we never heard back.

Italics mine. No, not about the ability of trans athletes to compete in sport, the fairness of trans women to compete against women in sport.

We believe that growth is possible, and we extend once again to Martina the invitation to learn from this experience, to study the data on trans athletes in sport, and to examine how statements like hers further stigma and discrimination.

The LGBTQ community is not a monolith. We must always leave space to learn from one another, and to grow. If we fail to do so, we are not only failing our goal to advance LGBTQ equality as a whole, but failing to live up to the core of our potential as human beings who believe all of us deserve a place in sports and in this world.

Italics mine. The LGBTQ community is not a monolith but everyone in it has to believe and repeat exactly what we tell them to, on pain of instant removal and public defamation. That kind of not a monolith.

Well the Guardian knows which side it is on.

The former Wimbledon champion Martina Navratilova has been criticised for “disturbing, upsetting, and deeply transphobic” comments after she argued that allowing transgender women to compete in women’s sporting tournaments was “insane and cheating”.

Dur dur dur; you can say that about anything, especially in The Twitter Age. The Guardian has been criticized for [insert your chosen loaded language here] too; that by itself tells us nothing, so it’s a stupid lede.

The tennis player and gay rights campaigner first drew criticism from equalities activists and trans athletes when she tweeted in December: “You can’t just proclaim yourself a female and be able to compete against women. There must be some standards, and having a penis and competing as a woman would not fit that standard.”

Or to put it another way “some particularly venomous trans activists jumped all over the tennis player and gay rights campaigner when she quite reasonably said that men shouldn’t compete against women.”

Frances Perraudin, the author of the hit piece, quotes a few paragraphs from Navratilova’s article and then resumes the “she violently caused all these nice people to criticize her” nonsense.

Her comments attracted criticism across social media. “We’re pretty devastated to discover that Martina Navratilova is transphobic,” tweeted the rights group Trans Actual. “If trans women had an advantage in sport, why aren’t trans women winning gold medals left, right and centre?”

Her comments also attracted praise and agreement across social media, but the Guardian isn’t so interested in that. It’s just boring old dreary women, after all, and who cares about them.

Following her comments in December, Navratilova was criticised by Rachel McKinnon, a Canadian academic and cyclist, who in October became the first transgender woman to win a track world title.

She wasn’t just criticized by McKinnon, she was relentlessly bullied by McKinnon.

“McKinnon has vigorously defended her right to compete, pointing out that, when tested, her levels of testosterone, the male hormone, were well within the limits set by world cycling’s governing body,” wrote Navratilova on Sunday. “Nevertheless, at 6ft tall and weighing more than 14 stone, she appeared to have a substantial advantage in muscle mass over her rivals.”

The tennis star said she had been “pretty put out” by McKinnon’s accusation that she was transphobic and said she deplored “what seems to be a growing tendency among transgender activists to denounce anyone who argues against them”.

She pointed to her friendship with Renée Richards, the transgender tennis player who campaigned to be able to compete in the women’s US Open, and her support for Caster Semenya, who is fighting a legal battle to be able to compete without taking testosterone-suppressing medication.

In a statement to the Guardian, McKinnon described Navratilova’s article as “disturbing, upsetting, and deeply transphobic”. “She trades on age-old stereotypes and stigma against trans women, treating us as men just pretending to be real women. She seeks to deny trans women equal rights to compete under the rules,” she said.

The Guardian quotes a statement to the Guardian by McKinnon but says nothing about a statement from Navratilova. Why quote a statement from McKinnon but not from Navratilova?

Silly question; because the Guardian has chosen a side, that’s why, and it’s not next to women, that’s why.

Final para:

A spokesperson for the LGBT rights charity Stonewall said: “Sport should be welcoming to everyone, including trans people. We need clubs and governing bodies, as the experts, to consider how their sports’ individual policies can work to be as inclusive as possible, and what advice and guidance they’re giving to ensure all people, including trans people, can take part in sport.”

That’s not the issue. Nobody is saying trans people shouldn’t take part in sport; nobody. The issue is whether people with male bodies should demand to compete against women and be so accommodated. The issue is whether or not women get to continue to take part in sport with a real hope of winning as opposed to being swamped by competitors who have male bodies. The Guardian’s contemptuous indifference to the concerns of women is obvious.

Martina Navratilova in the Sunday Times:

Shortly before Christmas I inadvertently stumbled into the mother and father of a spat about gender and fair play in sport. It began with an instinctive reaction and a tweet that I wrote on a serious forum dealing with the subject. “You can’t just proclaim yourself a female and be able to compete against women,” I tweeted. “There must be some standards, and having a penis and competing as a woman would not fit that standard.”

Perhaps I could have phrased it more delicately and less dogmatically, but I was not prepared for the onslaught that followed, chiefly from a Canadian academic and transgender cyclist named Rachel McKinnon.

She notes the controversy around McKinnon’s win at the Masters Track cycling world championship in Los Angeles last October, including the fact that the woman who came in third said it wasn’t fair. She notes McKinnon’s “vigorous” defense but says

Nevertheless, at 6ft tall and weighing more than 14 stone, she appeared to have a substantial advantage in muscle mass over her rivals.

Indeed, one that is uncomfortably visible in photos of the three winners together.

My tweet brought an angry response from McKinnon, whom I had not named (I had no idea who she was at the time). She accused me of being “transphobic” and demanded I delete my tweet and apologise. Since I have spent much of my life fighting injustice, on my own behalf and for others, I was pretty put out, especially when the bullying tweets from McKinnon continued, like incoming fire.

McKinnon is like that, as I’ve mentioned more than once. It remains interesting to me that McKinnon seems to have no inhibitions about bullying women this way, when you’d think it would mess up the whole presentation aspect of being a trans woman.

Ever the peacemaker, I promised to keep quiet on the subject until I had properly researched it.

Well, I’ve now done that and, if anything, my views have strengthened. To put the argument at its most basic: a man can decide to be female, take hormones if required by whatever sporting organisation is concerned, win everything in sight and perhaps earn a small fortune, and then reverse his decision and go back to making babies if he so desires. It’s insane and it’s cheating. I am happy to address a transgender woman in whatever form she prefers, but I would not be happy to compete against her. It would not be fair.

She explains about bone density and muscle mass, along with oxygen-carrying red blood cells.

Hundreds of athletes who have changed gender by declaration and limited hormone treatment have already achieved honours as women that were beyond their capabilities as men, especially in sports in which power rather than skill is paramount. McKinnon is just one example. That may uphold the International Olympic Committee’s charter, which holds that “the practice of sport is a human right”, but it is surely unfair on women who have to compete against people who, biologically, are still men.

Anyway even the International Olympic Committee’s charter doesn’t say “the practice of sport is a human right and therefore trans women get to compete against women.” The two issues are separate.

She talks about Renée Richards and Castor Semenya, and wraps up by returning to McKinnon.

McKinnon, who says she received more than 100,000 hate messages on Twitter after winning the world championship, has presented herself and other transgender athletes as victims of prejudice. Certainly, there can be no excuse for such ignorance and nastiness.

But I also deplore what seems to be a growing tendency among transgender activists to denounce anyone who argues against them and to label them all as “transphobes”. That’s just another form of tyranny. I’m relatively tough and was able to stand up for myself in my Twitter exchange with McKinnon, but I worry that others may be cowed into silence or submission.

Here’s how I concluded my Twitter spat: “Rachel, you may be an expert on all things trans, but you are one nasty human being. Attack, attack, attack. I will not take it from you. You did not engage; you bullied. Not blocking you [though I later did, because who wants all that negativity], but enough already. All I want is fairness.”

I think some trans activists must be secret double agents, put there to damage their cause and alienate as many people as possible. Rachel McKinnon (Martina's adversary) definitely qualifies. Here she is in USA Today last year. pic.twitter.com/FYgLFaH3Gn

— Andrew Gilligan (@mragilligan) February 17, 2019

Dawn Ennis at Outsports wrote a piece today which concluded with this elegant riposte:

Athena Del Rosario, an NCAA hockey goalie who came out in Outsports in 2017, tweeted her disappointment to us, upon seeing Navratilova’s op-ed:

“Oh geeze she thinks I’m a cheater without even knowing shit about me. What a loser. As an athlete being called a cheater is just about the worst thing. Martina, you re trash. I’m not above insults. You’ve got a more manlier body than me you bag.”

Outsports reached out to Navratilova for comment, but as of press time has not received a response; a U.K.-based anti-trans group that she follows, “Fair Play For Women,” instead offered a thread of tweets supporting her claims.

“Tweeted her disappointment to us” by calling Navratilova a loser, trash, and you bag.

Please, keep telling us trans women are women and there is no trace of misogyny or sexism in trans activism at all whatsoever.