Tag: Richard Dawkins

  • More unreconstructed every day

    The morning update. Dawkins is still raging at feminism, still whipping up hatred against women who object to Tim Hunt’s contemptuous remarks about women scientists.

    daw2

    Richard Dawkins ‏@RichardDawkins 8 hours ago
    “The Modern Witch-hunt.” @TheTimes letter: “Competitive condemnation.” “Ugly race to condemn.” The wish “to be in the front row of the mob.”

    Condemnation can be good. But Internet today makes it all too easy to whip up a baying mob & recapture the spirit of the playground bully.

    The bully here is Tim Hunt. The bully here is Richard Dawkins with his 1.2 million followers. The bully here is the consortium of Famous Pale Male Scientists trying to defend their right to express their contempt for women as colleagues.

  • “The baying witch-hunt”

    Richard Dawkins is at it again and still – he is still at it, and he has produced another specific instance of it. The “it” in question is his determined, condescending, angry, vindictive attack on feminism. (Why “vindictive”? Because to all appearances it started with Dear Muslima, and he’s made it very obvious that he’s deeply pissed off at all of us who pushed back against Dear Muslima.)

    We saw him at it just a few days ago, in a pair of tweets he sent on Sunday, perhaps while still at the CFI Reason for Change conference. Maybe he sent them Sunday morning while listening to Stephen Law’s talk – I know he was there because he was the first to ask a question at the end. I was there too. If only I’d known I could have flung myself at him and knocked the phone or tablet from his hands, thus saving him from yet another self-exposure as a raging anti-feminist bully. (Yes, bully. He’s using his fame and star status to do what he can to repress feminism and incite his fans to do even more of that. I know he knows that because I fucking told him so.)

    Those tweets again:

    Richard Dawkins ‏@RichardDawkins Jun 14
    “A moment to savour”? Really? Please, Guardian, could we just lighten up on the witch-hunts? #ReinstateTimHunt. http://reason.com/archives/2015/06/13/the-illiberal-persecution-of-tim

    Richard Dawkins ‏@RichardDawkins Jun 14
    @SquashedLumps I didn’t like Tim Hunt’s joke. But I loathe and detest mob rule and witch hunts and politically correct feeding frenzies.

    Now he’s sent the content of the tweets to The Times. Yes really: he sent a letter to The Times complaining of a “baying witch hunt.” He actually did that.

    Let me pause before quoting the whole letter to point out what he’s doing here. He’s blowing a deeply disgusting dog whistle by using the word “witch” in this context. It’s interesting, in an emetic way, that he can’t seem to stop himself using the word “witch” whenever he gets in a rage at feminist women. Remember “I promise you I’m not exaggerating” last summer? And now again. He’s invoking both the inquisitorial mindset that triggers witch hunts, and the link between women and perceived witches. It’s a filthy business, and he needs to stop.

    Now his letter to the Times:

    Sir, Along with many others, I didn’t like Sir Tim Hunt’s joke, but “disproportionate” would be a huge underestimate of the baying witch-hunt that it unleashed among our academic thought police: nothing less than a feeding frenzy of mob-rule self-righteousness. A writer in The Guardian even described it as “a moment to savour.” To “savour” a moment of human misery — to “savour” the hounding of one of our most distinguished scientists — goes beyond schadenfreude and spills over into cruelty.

    Professor Richard Dawkins, FRS

    Oxford

    To repeat what I’ve said before:

    This wasn’t some private “joke” at a dinner table. This was something Hunt said in a talk at the World Conference of Science Journalists in Seoul, South Korea. It was something he said in his official capacity as a Top scientist. It was patronizing and dismissive of women.

    This is not some small gaffe. It’s not for other Top male white scientists to blow it off, because male white scientists have never had to face that particular kind of patronizing dismissal from people who are of the “superior” sex and/or race to them. Dawkins doesn’t know anything about the way patronizing dismissal impedes people of “inferior” race and/or sex, because that kind of patronizing dismissal has never impeded him. That’s very pleasant for him, and he’s made excellent use of it as an educator until recently, but it still means he should not weigh in to call us witches or witch-hunters when we fight back. He should stop.

    Last Friday evening I watched him receive a lifetime achievement award at the CFI Reason for Change conference. I didn’t enjoy it much, because he has made so much of his achievement lately be about bullying feminist women. I think it’s very sad that he’s so determined to add that to his CV and thus to put a big ugly blot on it. I also think it’s shameful of him.

    When he made his remarks on receiving the award, he made some tiresome quip about the Judean People’s Front versus the People’s Front of Judea haw haw because he’s never made that joke before, sigh. But he also said he was very sorry about the divisions among us. He said it quickly and without elaborating and then moved on, but he said it.

    But he clearly didn’t mean a word of it.

    I’m disgusted. I know that’s obvious, but I want to spell it out anyway. I think his campaign against feminism is disgusting and contemptible and I think he should stop.

  • These days, Dawkins describes himself as “a communicator”

    Sophie Elmhirst has a long profile of Richard Dawkins in the Guardian. It’s partly about his new career of creating uproars on Twitter, and whether or not that’s a good idea.

    The two strands of Dawkins’s mission – promoting science, demolishing religion – are intended to be complementary. “If they are antagonistic to each other, that would be regrettable,” he said, “but I don’t see why they should be.” But antagonism is part of Dawkins’s daily life. “I suppose some of the passions that I show are more appropriate to a young man than somebody of my age.” Since his arrival on Twitter in 2008, his public pronouncements have become more combative – and, at times, flamboyantly irritable: “How dare you force your dopey unsubstantiated superstitions on innocent children too young to resist?,” he tweeted last June. “How DARE you?”

    “Flamboyantly irritable” is a good way of putting it. There are problems with both, especially in a famous Oxford academic – and especially when they are irritable rather than witty or probing. Anybody can do irritable, and anybody does; it’s hard to see why Dawkins needs to join that massive and uninteresting crowd.

    These days, Dawkins describes himself as “a communicator”. But depending on your point of view, he is also a hero, a heathen, or a liability. Many of his recent statements – on subjects ranging from the lack of Nobel prize-winning Muslim scientists to the “immorality” of failing to abort a foetus with Down’s syndrome – have sparked outraged responses (some of which Dawkins read aloud on a recent YouTube video, which perhaps won him back a few friends). For some, his controversial positions have started to undermine both his reputation as a scientist and his own anti-religious crusade. Friends who vigorously defend both his cause and his character worry that Dawkins might be at risk of self-sabotage. “He could be seriously damaging his long-term legacy,” the philosopher Daniel Dennett said of Dawkins’s public skirmishes. It is a legacy, Dennett believes, that should reflect the “masterpiece” that was The Selfish Gene and Dawkins’s major contribution to our understanding of life. As for Twitter: “I wish he wouldn’t do it,” Krauss said. “I told him that.”

    Lots of people have told him that – friends and colleagues, I mean, not just onlookers.

    Dawkins regularly goes on fundraising lecture tours, where his fame comes in useful. Tickets for a tour of the US in June – “an evening with Richard Dawkins”, in theatres in Portland, Oregon, Rochester, Minnesota and Boston – are on sale on the RDFRS website for $35. Access to a VIP reception beforehand is $250. Membership of the “Dawkins circle” costs from $1,000 to $9,999 a year, winning you discounts to the foundation’s online store, invitations to events with “RDFRS personalities” and, at its most expensive, two tickets for an “invitation-only” event with Dawkins himself. The fundraising is led by Robyn Blumner, the full time CEO of his foundation; Dawkins is her celebrity draw. “I’m totally hopeless at asking for money,” said Dawkins. “So I do work extremely hard at trying to be charming.”

    Twitter not included.

    For Dawkins, the science has always come first; his atheism is simply a natural extension of a lifelong quest to do Darwin’s work on Earth. As for the suggestion his public interventions over the past few years have done more harm than good – both to himself and his cause: “That does worry me,” Dawkins conceded, and yet he cannot quite resist the urge to wade in. “I think there is a curious desire in humans, maybe not all humans but certainly in me, to put things right,” he said. “There’s a joke in the New Yorker or something like that, of a man at a computer. It’s obviously very late and his wife is begging him to come to bed. He’s saying, ‘I can’t come to bed. Somebody’s wrong on the internet.’”

    Twitter is not the best medium for putting things right. It’s one of the worst.

    In recent years, the following sequence of events has become something of an online soap, regular and predictable: Dawkins tweets, is criticised for being deeply offensive, and then writes a long article to explain what he actually meant, which usually is not too far from what he said in the first place, but expressed with slightly more nuance. Since Dawkins joined Twitter seven years ago, he has amassed more than a million followers. He tweets assiduously, attracted by the medium’s limitations: “I’m sort of mildly intrigued by the art form of précising something into 140 characters; it’s not an easy thing to do. And there’s a certain satisfaction in the skill of doing it.”

    Avoiding the obvious joke, I will make the less obvious point that the satisfaction fades pretty quickly, or at least it did in my case and I think probably in most people’s. You get the hang of it and then it just becomes a tool – it can be good for rapid conversations if the participants are witty enough, but no one tweet is likely to be a work of art. I think the medium’s limitations are something Dawkins shouldn’t be attracted by – I think they don’t work in his favor.

    There was the pot of honey, for instance, as Elmhirst goes on to say.

    Even on more serious topics, Dawkins cannot quite fathom how often he finds himself at the centre of online firestorms. “I do seem to be horribly susceptible to being misunderstood,” he said.

    And why is that? If it’s a pattern, there’s probably a reason for the pattern. I think I know what it is.

    “Quite a lot of what I do on Twitter is try to raise a discussion point,” he said. “It’s as though I was doing a seminar with students and said, ‘Here’s an interesting thought, X. What do you think about X?’” He is then mystified when his hypothesis is met by a chorus of criticism and abuse. “Very often I’m not making a point, but asking a question.” Sometimes his questions seem genuinely curious: “Whistling requires precise tongue positioning, like finger on violin string. Yet most can whistle tunes sans training. Interesting?” But often they are more rhetorical: “Truly? Is Sweden such a fatuously ridiculous country, bending over backwards to accommodate religious idiocy?”

    Now I’m picturing fatuously ridiculous Sweden bending over backwards, and snickering.

    Last July, Dawkins wrote, in 136 quickly infamous characters, “Date rape is bad. Stranger rape at knifepoint is worse. If you think that’s an endorsement of date rape, go away and learn how to think.” For Dawkins, this was simply the illustration of a basic point of logic; on the other hand, he was using a highly sensitive crime as an example. “If I used another example it would have been obvious,” Dawkins said, by way of explanation. “The point is there are people who seriously refuse to admit that some rapes are worse than others.” Isn’t that a judgment to be made by the person who’s experienced it? “Exactly, which is why I said date rape may be worse than stranger rape. I said that. It’s up to the victim to decide … But it’s absurd for the thought police to come along and say that it is forbidden to allow a woman to rank some rapes as worse than others … This is a logical point, and there are people who say that emotion trumps logic.” For Dawkins, the idea that someone could understand his argument and still disagree with him was bewildering. “There must be something wrong with how I’m expressing it,” he said. In the presence of his logic, there is no room for an alternative view.

    When did he write that? Right after we issued the joint statement. Two days after, if I remember correctly.

    Perhaps the greatest source of disquiet within the atheist movement – particularly in the US, where the movement, under the broad banner of “skepticism”, is more active and organised – is among feminists. Greta Christina, an American feminist and atheist blogger, first met Dawkins at an event in 2009. It was a fantasy made real. “He was the reason I started calling myself an atheist … [meeting him] was one of the proudest moments of my life.” Then, in 2011, Dawkins waded into a comment thread under a blogpost about a discussion of sexual harassment that had recently taken place at a skeptics’ conference in the US: “Dear Muslima,” Dawkins wrote to an imagined Muslim woman, “Stop whining, will you. Yes, yes, I know you had your genitals mutilated with a razor blade, and … yawn … don’t tell me yet again, I know you aren’t allowed to drive a car … But stop whining, will you. Think of the suffering your poor American sisters have to put up with.”

    The attempt at satire went down badly: Dawkins appeared to be dismissing any concerns about sexual harassment (“He spoke some words to her. Just words,”) and doing so by ranking the experiences of women. He later apologised, but it marked, for Christina, a “disappointing and discouraging” turn for Dawkins, who had become, in her eyes, “so troubling, in such serious ways, and in particular so stubbornly troubling”.

    Dawkins has always called himself a “passionate” feminist. As a fellow at New College, he agitated to allow women to be admitted, a change that occurred in 1979. “I show my feminism very largely in the Islamic context,” he said. “Because if women are having a hard time anywhere in the world, it’s there … I get impatient with American feminists who are so obsessed with being looked at inappropriately over the water cooler at work or whatever it is, that they forget that there are women being literally stoned to death for the crime of being raped.”

    No, we don’t. We don’t forget. I, for instance, write about both. A lot.

    His position has been interpreted in unfortunate ways by some of his followers. “Because he’s such a hero in the movement,” the American feminist Ophelia Benson said, “that gave a green light to an awful lot of people in the movement who thought it was okay to harass [feminists].” In recent years, online sceptic forums have been deluged with bilious anti-feminist posts and crude photoshopped images of women.

    In an attempt to quell the increasingly unpleasant tone of discussion, Dawkins released a statement last August, jointly written with Benson, calling for an end to the online abuse. Dawkins added a personal footnote: “I’m told that some people think I tacitly endorse such things even if I don’t indulge in them. Needless to say, I’m horrified by that suggestion. Any person who tries to intimidate members of our community with threats or harassment is in no way my ally and is only weakening the atheist movement.”

    A few weeks later he was back on Twitter writing comments about how a drunk woman’s evidence was unreliable in a rape trial. Why? “Because I not only care passionately about truth, I care passionately about justice.” (Should it not worry him more that such a tiny proportion of rape cases make it to court at all? “Oh absolutely … I care very passionately about that, of course I do.”) Benson, who had encouraged Dawkins to write the statement in the first place, looked on in despair. “No, no, Richard,” she remembered thinking. “That was not the idea.”

    Yup. That is what I thought.

    But don’t worry: the balance sheet comes out right.

    “Ultimately, will his net impact be positive?” Krauss asked. “I think the answer’s yes. For all the intelligentsia and all the people who are offended, I see a much larger audience that I hadn’t appreciated for whom these issues are brand new.”

    Again, I will avoid the obvious retorts. I’m tired of uttering them.

  • Spin in the Dawkins Circle

    What was that about Dawkins’s never having “proclaimed himself as any kind of atheist ‘leader’”?

    What about this then – what about Join the Dawkins Circle?

    Reason Circle: $1,000 to $2,499 annually (or $85/month)

    • Invitation to Dawkins Circle member-only event with RDFRS personalities
    • Member-only discount for all purchases in the richarddawkins.net store

    Science Circle: $2,500 to $4,999 annually (or $210/month)

    All the benefits listed above, plus:

    • One ticket to an invitation-only Dawkins Circle event with Richard

    Darwin Circle: $5,000 to $9,999 annually (or $420/month)

    All the benefits listed above, plus:

    • Two tickets to an invitation-only Dawkins Circle event with Richard

    For as little as one thousand dollars a year, you can attend a Dawkins Circle member-only event with RDFRS personalities. Wow!! Only a grand, and you get to go to a Dawkins Circle member-only event!! Gollywolly I can hardly breathe at the thought. Granted, there are conferences that charge much less than that where you can probably encounter “RDFRS personalities” or at least be in the same air-space with their majesties. But still, it’s totally worth it to shell out the whole one thousand dollars to get the real deal brand-name authentic Dawkins Circle member-only event.

    And even more thrilling, if you spend just another $1,500 for a very modest total of two thousand five hundred dollars per year you get that plus a ticket to an invitation-only Dawkins Circle event with…gasp gasp gasp choke…with Richard. With holy sainted sacred Richard. I know people who would queue in the rain for a month to get a ticket like that. I know people who would throw their first-born children into a bonfire to get a ticket like that.

    And if you shell out a mere five thousand dollars per year you get two of those. Two!! Two chances to share air-space with…Richard. Hallowed be thy name.

    But never let it be said that he’s ever proclaimed himself any kind of atheist “leader.”

  • What language are they speaking? Is it English?

    I think what set Dawkins off on his University Probably Is Not For You hashtag spree was Christina Hoff Sommers on her own Twitter spree on the subject of her talk at Oberlin on Monday.

    He replied to one of her tweets:

    Richard Dawkins‏@RichardDawkins
    @CHSommers What language are they speaking? Is it English? English is my native language and I couldn’t understand a single word they said.

    Kids today eh. Students eh well I never. Young people talk a strange lingo get offa my lawn wot wot.

    So what about Sommers’s talk at Oberlin? You probably know without looking. There was hostility, there were protests, there was talk of safe spaces and trigger warnings. There was probably a good deal of silliness, because people can be silly, yes even feminist undergraduates. Sommers gave a predictable little interview to Reason on the subject.

    But the thing is…Sommers spends quite a lot of her time and energy deliberately provoking such responses. She’s very like Dawkins that way only more so. She does not act like an academic philosopher now, she acts like a Fox “News” personality or a shock jock. Her videos are snide and sarcastic, and her tweets are the same only more so. She’s obnoxious on purpose, then she gives a talk at a liberal college and gets the expected responses, then she gets more mileage out of complaining about the responses. It’s her shtick.

    The students at the liberal college are pretty foolish to take her bait, but she’s pretty malicious to dangle it in front of them. And Dawkins is wrong to take her seriously.

  • But it’s terribly important to understand

    I saw a discussion of a video of Dawkins talking to someone on a stage in front of an audience, which is an extract from the full video posted by the RDF. It’s an event at Kennesaw State University in Georgia last November 21. I watched the first four minutes of the extract because it’s interesting. I transcribed most of it for the purpose of saying what’s wrong with it.

    //www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybhZ6PLUYwI

    The guy asking the questions, Dr. Michael L. Sanseviro, Dean of Student Success at Kennesaw State, asks about the controversy about feminism and why Dawkins has been comparing degrees of badness when one could say the same thing about atheism. Yes, Dawkins says. “I want to be clear about this.” Then he pauses to think and then proceeds:

    When I say something like, “This kind of maltreatment of women in America is bad but the treatment of women in Islam is worse,” I’m not saying treatment of women in America is good. I’m just saying it’s not asbad. I get the feeling there are some people who can’t tell the difference between saying that this is bad but that’s worse. They seem to think I’m saying this must be good because that’s worse and of course I’m not saying that at all.

    No.

    No, no, no, no.

    People have told him no over and over again. I know he’s seen some of that telling because it was in comments on his website and he replied to comments there. I know he’s had it explained to him repeatedly that that’s not the right description. I also have a hard time believing he can’t figure it out for himself, but if he can’t, he’s doing a pretty decent performance of not being able to.

    So I’ll say my version again, because I’m stubborn that way.

    Yes, logically he’s right, saying this is worse is not saying that is good, it’s just saying that is not as bad. We all know that. We all know what “worse” means. It doesn’t help to talk to us as if we were 2.

    The logic is not all there is to it.

    He himself has not been making a solely logical point all this time. “Dear Muslima” was not about logic.

    Doing that “other people have it much worse than you do” thing is a well-worn, familiar, classic way of dismissing other people’s complaints. There are times when it’s justified, and also times when if not quite justified it’s at least understandable. But it can also just be an assholish way of telling people to shut up.

    Richard is a grown man. He lives in the world. He’s acquainted with some human beings. He can’t possibly be completely unaware of this particular rhetorical move as a rhetorical move. A friend of mine has a funny story about how her mother liked to greet her every moan and whine with the old “I was sad that I had no shoes until I met a man with no feet” line, to the point that my friend would interrupt her mother with “I know I know, shoes, feet.”

    So, no. That bullshit is bullshit. We know he’s not literally saying “maltreatment of women in America is good” but that’s not the issue. What he is rhetorically saying is “maltreatment of women in America is trivial and you’re a spoiled bitch and I want you to stop talking.”

    And he should cop to that. He should stop getting all innocently indignant when people ask him about it, and pretending all he ever meant was to point out that things are worse in some places than they are in others, as if anyone thought otherwise.

    Why would he do that in the first place? Why would he bother announcing that stoning is worse than harassment? Nobody says it’s not, so why bother to say it?

    As Sanseviro hints, one could say exactly the same thing to Dawkins about atheism. Atheists in Bangladesh are being chopped to death with machetes, which is worse than what happens to atheists in the UK and the US. That’s just [wide-eyed innocence] a logical point. I’m not saying what happens to atheists in the UK and the US is good. [blink blink]

    But why say it at all? If you’re not implying that talking about less-bad thing X is self-indulgent, then why say it at all?

    He goes on to expand on the point. Harassment is bad, harassment on the job is bad, harassment on the job by a boss is very bad. He’s had friends in that situation who’ve been fired for not submitting. Bad. Appalling. He’s never said otherwise.

    But.

    What I have said is that, however appalling that may be, having your clitoris cut off is worse.

    Why? Why why why? Why say that? Why has he said that?

    Who asked him? What makes him think it needs to be said? Who asked him to pronounce on which abuses of women are worse than other abuses of women? Why is it his job to grade abuses of women?

    But he doesn’t care about that. He cares about getting us to understand that saying X is worse than Y ≠ Y is good.

    But it’s terribly important to understand that because something is worse that doesn’t mean the first thing is good. [gesturing] That’s bad too. And I’m deeply disturbed that some of the remarks that I’ve made on Twitter have apparently, to my horror, been used to assault women in America with threats of rape and goodness knows what else. Because of a misunderstanding of something that I’ve said. That is truly appalling and I’ve spoken out against that. But isn’t it sort of obvious, this logical point that is bad [gesturing, pointing here then there] and that’s worse, is not saying that that’s good? [faint murmur from audience] [Dawkins louder] Isn’t that bloody obvious? [tiny amount of laughter, applause]

    Yes, it is, it is bloody obvious, and no one is confused about it. What’s also bloody obvious is that that is not and never has been the issue.

  • That’s why

    Adam Lee has a post on the “suppression” of Richard Dawkins, based on that interview with Kimberly Winston a few weeks ago. There’s a comment on it that is surprisingly oblivious to something that seems completely obvious to me. (Which just goes to show – what’s obvious to me is not obvious to thee. That’s what all this is about, in the end.)

    Adam, your points are as always well thought through and equally well written.
    What I don’t understand is the obsession that some in the atheist community have in following Richard Dawkins every word and then proceeding to perform an autopsy on the perceived flaws in his character. He is after all human like the rest of us, albeit extremely talented and skilled in areas I am only just able to understand as a layman.

    I can understand the religious zealots picking him apart, as they see him as a threat to the truth behind their fairy tales and the power and control that their false beliefs gives them over their flock. However it seems though there is a desire for the atheist community to have a messiah to rival god in the religious world and to many, Dawkins excellent works on the subject have elevated him to this perceived status.

    I am a proud atheist and have no need to look for any idol in my life to replace a non existent god. I idolise the true outstanding behaviours in human kind; love caring, compassion and putting others needs above your own. As humans we all have character flaws, look hard enough and you will find them in all of us. Why this obsession with Dawkins,? Brilliant scientist and great orator aside he is after all a non believer like me with his human character flaws like me and the rest of us.
    So why this obsession?

    Seriously?

    Because he’s immensely popular and influential.

    That’s why.

    He’s immensely popular, so people take their cues from him, they pay attention to what he says, he shapes some of their thinking.

    He’s influential: he has a foundation, he gives money to organizations, his presence at a conference draws paying customers. The press goes to him for thoughts on atheism and secularism. He can promote people he likes, and he can draw harassment and threats down on people he dislikes.

    That’s why.

    This popularity and influence naturally shape the way others deal with him and with his critics. People who run organizations have every reason to want to avoid annoying him, and almost no reason to want to annoy him apart from whatever substantive disagreements they may have. Substantive disagreement is as milkweed in the face of all the motives they have to stay on his good side.

    All that means, among other things, that every damn time he issues some Twitter taunt against what he takes to be the wrong kind of feminism, he makes things worse for atheist feminists in general. He apparently still doesn’t grasp that simple fact, but he ought to – it’s not as if he’s unaware of his sales figures or his popularity. (I’ve seen him using his sales figures as a weapon against interlocutors on Twitter.)

    So, all that is why. There’s more; I could go on about it for thousands of words; but you get the drift. That’s why.

  • Dana’s advice for Coyne Dawkins and Harris

    Dana Hunter has a brilliant post on all this. It draws on brilliance from Libby Anne and from Hiba Krisht, for a hat trick of brilliance.

    I’d like to ask a favor of anyone who can manage to get a critical viewpoint through the defenses of atheist celebrities like Harris and Dawkins: please get them to read Libby Anne’s infuriating and heartbreaking post, Do They Care about Women, or Simply Bashing Religion? Because it’s a question they need to address. They’re driving people like Libby Anne away from movement atheism. That is very much to the detriment of the movement.

    It most certainly is. And Libby Anne is very far from the only one they are driving away.

    I don’t think they’re worried about this, by the way – I think they think they have all the good, clever, sensible, anti-PC people, and we’re just the frenzied ideological cultists. No, that’s not how it is.

    Dana lists some of the ways she admires Libby Anne and goes to her for useful reading.

    She’s made me aware of just how relentlessly even mainstream culture genders kids, well before they’re old enough to even have a concept of themselves as boy or girl or something else. She’s worth a thousand Richard Dawkinses or Sam Harrises to me. She could be a tremendous asset to any atheist organization.

    She could, but movement atheism is too busy patronizing women and making sure we all get the impression that we’re only of use to our Fearless Leaders™ when we’re being used as a cudgel against religion, and she wants none of that.

    It is men like these who confirm my decision not to engage in movement atheism. Despite their claims, I don’t see them displaying a greater willingness to question their biases or engage in critical thinking. Frankly, I have felt for some time that atheist activists are frequently only willing to call out sexism when they see it in religion. It’s one more way they can point to how thoroughly horrible religion is as they call for its demise. But the moment an atheist woman says she has encountered sexism at atheist conventions or at atheist gatherings, she is lampooned and derided, called all manner of names and even threatened with rape or death. But isn’t this the kind of thing these same atheists criticize religion for?

    Frankly, I feel used. These atheist activists are the sort of people who want to use my story as proof that religion is horrible to women but aren’t willing to listen to what I have to say about sexism in our culture at large.

    “Aren’t willing” is putting it mildly – start spitting poison at the very thought, is more like it.

    We can tell when you don’t genuinely give a shit about us, and are only using us as a weapon against someone or something else. You think you’re amazing allies, because wow are you so brainy, and you say such wonderful things about how wrong those religious practices that fuck over women are, but when it comes to treating the women within your own movement better? You shriek and whine and shit all over us. You use the plight of those religious women against us, as if this is either/or, as if we cannot address sexism within western secular spaces until we’ve destroyed all the religion.

    Bullshit.

    You need to start paying attention to the women who are telling you they are not yours to use. People like Hiba. Her comment on Libby Anne’s post needs to be etched onto atheist leader dude’s mirrors, where they’re forced to read the words every day, until they get it:

    Ex-Muslim woman of color here. I blog about this stuff over at the Freethought Blogs. Your words are affirming. I too, feel used. Especially when the plights of women like me–women raised in Muslim-majority countries, forced to cover, controlled and abused by militant Islamist organizations and individuals–are appropriated and used to bolster anti-feminism in the West, to minimize battles against harassment and unequal representation. I refuse to have my story used to attack and demean other women. I refuse to have my story used as a talking point for hypocritical anti-theists.

    See what I mean? A trifecta.

    I seem to recall men looking round the atheist movement a few years ago and wondering where the women are. We’re right here, either outside the movement or heading for the doors, because we tried to come in, but you made the place so hostile many of us said fuck all y’all and walked out.

    You, white male atheists who spend so much time screaming you’re not sexist that you can’t acknowledge when you’ve done sexist things and bloody well stop, are causing women to stomp out in disgust. Then you’re blaming us for not wanting to put up with your shit. It’s well past time you cut your pride down to size, swallowed some of it, and listened to what women are saying to you. Women like Hiba, and Libby Anne, and so very many others who’ve had it.

    You want a strong, united movement? Then fix the problems you’ve caused. Until you do, I’ll just be hanging out here on this side of the Deep Rifts with the people who give an actual shit about women.

    It is better over here. Way, way better.

  • The arbiter of what feminists should or shouldn’t get upset about

    Michael Nugent has a terrible, patronizing, let-me-fix-this post chastising Adam Lee for his article quoting Dawkins’s recent forays into anti-feminism. I’m very tired of Michael’s self-appointed let-me-fix-this posturing, and I was going to ignore the post, but then I saw on Twitter that Adam had responded so I clicked on the link, which turned out to be to a comment – a very good comment – on Michael’s post.

    You said that you were going to address the question of where my article was “inaccurate”, but the majority of your article is a complaint about various choices of wording I made, the thrust of which is that it’s unfair for me to use emotive language in support of the conclusions I advocate. I reject this.

    Over the last few years, I’ve seen some outstanding activists driven off the internet or out of the atheist movement entirely by torrents of horrendous harassment and threats. It’s an ugly silencing tactic, and it’s still going on: Rebecca Watson tweeted that she blocked or reported twelve abusive accounts yesterday. Not last month or last week, but yesterday. I believe that clueless, dismissive, or hostile remarks by prominent male atheists reward this behavior and encourage it to continue. Am I angry about that? Hell, yes! My words were chosen quite carefully to reflect that conclusion.

    And that’s one reason Michael’s rush to defend Dawkins and Harris from the terrible verbal violence of a few feminist bloggers is so annoying. Atheoworld is already very comfortable and accommodating to Dawkins and Harris; it’s already full of worshipful guys worshiping them and scorning feminists who criticize them; it’s already deferential and flattering and soothing to them. They don’t need Michael’s help, but he rushes to give it anyway, stepping on us to do it.

    The paragraph then refers to comments about thought police, click-bait for profit and fake outrage, which are not issues about sexism or feminism.

    That couldn’t be more wrong. These are absolutely issues about sexism and feminism.

    In context, what Dawkins was saying is that feminism is a non-issue, that the only reason people write about it and attack him or other atheists for allegedly sexist statements is that they’re acting in bad faith to drum up attention for themselves, or because they’re “outrage junkies” who simply enjoy getting angry over nothing.

    As opposed to thinking his dismissive tweets about rape and his fawning tweets about Christina Hoff Sommers are calculated to put us in our place and to work up more rage from the enraged Macho Atheist Faction, and thus harmful to us (and to a larger and better atheist movement).

    This is the same kind of demeaning, minimizing rhetoric that’s always used against people who argue for social-justice-based conclusions. It’s used against atheists ad nauseam, for example: that we’re thought police and outrage junkies who want to stop teachers from leading students in prayer, even though that’s a harmless historical tradition that no one ever complained about before. It’s an attempt to deny legitimacy to any criticism of harmful practices that are in accord with conventional wisdom.

    But when Richard wrote about outrage in The God Delusion, he was responding to things like the Vatican police, in the nineteenth century, kidnapping Jewish children who had been secretly baptised by Catholic nursemaids. By contrast, when some people have recently expressed ‘outrage’ against Richard, it has been mostly about tweets on Twitter.

    Michael, I hope you realize what you’re doing here. Whether you intended it or not, you’re saying that you’ve taken it upon yourself to decide which issues are or aren’t worthy of our attention, and you want to be accepted as the arbiter of what feminists should or shouldn’t get upset about. Even leaving aside the moral implications of a man talking down to feminists in this way, do you think this is a strategy that’s likely to meet with any success at all?

    Exactly. Why is Michael taking it upon himself to decide which issues are or aren’t worthy of our attention, and to try to be accepted as the arbiter of what feminists should or shouldn’t get upset about? He’s not the boss of us. Why is he trying to be that?

    I’m by no means the first to criticize Dawkins; plenty of prominent feminists and atheists have been explaining for years how certain of his remarks are untrue, hurtful, or founded in ignorance about the viewpoint and experiences of women. I guarantee those women could tell you that whenever Dawkins says something nasty about them, they get a noticeable uptick in harassment. His worse followers treat it as permission. His joint statement with Ophelia Benson was a welcome attempt to mitigate that, but it was years late, and in any case, I think whatever good it did has been mitigated by his more recent reversion to type – lashing out nastily at feminists by calling them dishonest, witch hunters, thought police, etc. Are those comments also “phrased to generate prejudice in readers”? Will you write a follow-up chiding Dawkins for using such language?

    It was my suggestion that he could mitigate the harassment he had himself helped to justify. That part was my suggestion; it was his suggestion that we should sign it jointly. That was a good moment – I thought there really might be some hope of improved relations all around. I did. But it was only two days later that he embarked on the “let’s grade rape according to severity” tweets…and it was all downhill from there.

    I think Adam’s reply is eloquent, and I think Michael’s officiousness is infuriating.

  • Sleepwalking towards that feared world

    Adam Lee is taken aback at Richard Dawkins’s comment on Jerry Coyne’s blog post yesterday (the one about Adam’s Comment is Free article about Dawkins).

    I saw that comment yesterday, and I saw that it was bad, but I didn’t have time to do it justice. Adam has done it justice; read his post. I want to say a thing or two about it myself.

    Thank you, Jerry.

    I long ago declared that I would not wish to go on living if I found myself in a world dominated by people who no longer care about what’s true and express open contempt for factual evidence. Either a 1984 world where the Party in power is the sole arbiter of what is “true” and enforces it with violence; or a world where truth is whatever society deems it to be, regardless of evidence, and where dissenters are ruthlessly punished by vitriolic abuse or ostracism rather than violence.

    I fear we are sleepwalking towards that feared world, where people shun evidence and despise facts: a world where dogma is king, emotion is queen and evidence is exiled; and where dissent from orthodoxy is suppressed by verbal if not physical jackboots.

    What’s this about a world dominated by people who no longer care about what’s true and express open contempt for factual evidence? Excuse me: we have been documenting the things Dawkins types for weeks (in some cases, months). Documenting them. How is that not caring about what’s true? How is it open contempt for factual evidence? How ironic: in complaining about people with a disregard for truth, he tells an untruth about people he dislikes.

    Ok wait a second, a partisan of the Dawkins-Coyne faction might say here. Hold on. Why have people been documenting the things Dawkins types? It’s just because you’re looking for fodder for click-bait, right? Right?

    No. It’s because Dawkins matters. It’s because he’s not just some random atheist; he’s the most un-random atheist we’ve got. He is by far the most famous recognizable celebrity-like person in the Anglophone atheist movement. (Anglophone, please note. Michael Nugent keeps complaining that global atheism isn’t American atheism, as if we obnoxious Yanks had been pretending otherwise. No, of course it’s not. I’m talking about Anglophone atheism here.) Now an atheist celebrity isn’t a real celebrity by the usual standards; Dawkins isn’t a movie star or rock star or basketball star; but he is a celeb in this particular niche. He’s the celeb.

    As such, he does a lot to set the tone of said atheist movement.

    That tone sucks.

    We – we naughty critics, we bad people who keep documenting what Dawkins says on Twitter – we would like to have a better atheist movement with a less sucky tone. We would like to have an atheist movement that’s not sometimes absent-mindedly and sometimes determinedly contemptuous of women. We think it would help if Dawkins set a better tone.

    Or at least I do. I think the others do too; I think that’s basically why any of us do this; but I haven’t polled them and I don’t know that they would word it this way.

    But I’m pretty sure that’s the gist of it. The atheist movement is way too riddled with casual sexism, and Dawkins has done a lot to make it that way, and we would like him to stop doing that and do the opposite instead.

    There. Now back to his staggeringly hyperbolic and self-pitying comment.

    Either a 1984 world where the Party in power is the sole arbiter of what is “true” and enforces it with violence; or a world where truth is whatever society deems it to be, regardless of evidence, and where dissenters are ruthlessly punished by vitriolic abuse or ostracism rather than violence.

    And he’s claiming that bloggers criticizing him, on the basis of things he has said and done, are or look like or are leading to a world where truth is whatever society deems it to be, regardless of evidence, and where dissenters are ruthlessly punished by vitriolic abuse or ostracism rather than violence? Really?

    It’s so tempting to do a Dear Muslimo about that. So tempting.

    I fear we are sleepwalking towards that feared world, where people shun evidence and despise facts: a world where dogma is king, emotion is queen and evidence is exiled; and where dissent from orthodoxy is suppressed by verbal if not physical jackboots.

    Verbal jackboots: like, Richard Dawkins said the following clueless sexist thing on Twitter today.

    Really?

  • Isn’t it obvious?

    Adam Lee thinks Dawkins needs better defenders.

    This week, I published a column in the Guardian arguing that Richard Dawkins’ sexism is overshadowing his contributions to the atheist movement. It got, shall we say, a large reaction. But not all negative, I hasten to add! I was very pleased with the amount of praise and compliments it attracted – I heard from a lot of people who told me that I said exactly what they’ve been thinking (including this piece by Allegra Ringo in Vice, published the same day as mine).

    Because believe it or not, Jerry & Russell & Michael & the rest of the gang, we are not the only ones who are noticing Dawkins’s Twitter freakouts, and he’s not actually doing a fabulous job of PR for atheism right now. You clearly want to think it’s all just an attempt to grab the throne for ourselves or some such damn fool thing, but it’s not. I, for instance, would like a much less sexist atheist movement. I have zero hope of getting it at this point, but that’s what I want.

    Calling Adam a liar, for instance – not great PR.

    @LvAryaSta But why do you believe that liar in the Guardian? Isn’t it obvious that what he says is false?

    Obvious? No. Not obvious at all. Hidden.

    Note, it’s not just that he disagrees with my criticism – he thinks I’m lying, as in deliberately setting out to deceive. This, unfortunately, is of a piece with Dawkins’ recent pattern of assuming bad faith on the part of any atheist who criticizes him (“clickbait for profit”), and acting as if this means the criticism itself doesn’t need to be answered. (“Isn’t it obvious?” After all this time, he can’t even comprehend why people might object to anything he says. I think this post on Underverse offers an excellent explanation of why that is.)

    Since everything in my Guardian piece was based on public statements that Dawkins has made, if I’m lying or misrepresenting anything he’s said, it ought to be very easy to prove. Just cite a claim that I attributed to Dawkins, then point to the corresponding place in his public record to show that what he actually said was the opposite. For a rational community like us, that should be a simple task.

    Has anyone done it yet? Not that I’ve seen. Just Coyne calling Adam pathetic.

    The evening it went up, I heard from Miranda Celeste Hale, who I gather is a friend of Dawkins. She expressed surprise that the Guardian published my piece at all (shock, horror, an atheist Thought Leader is being criticized!), and repeatedly accused me of dishonesty. Was she able to substantiate that charge? Judge for yourself:

    There follows a Storify, in which Adam keeps asking for examples, and Miranda keeps saying “you were dishonest!!” over and over. It’s pretty funny.

    UPDATE: Another defender of Dawkins joins in: Jerry Coyne, author of Why Evolution is True. He’s none too pleased with my article, although, yet again, he declines to specify exactly what about it is false: “I won’t bother to dissect it in detail”. I posted a comment in reply.

    Here’s how it starts:

    Hiya Jerry,

    Well, this is unexpected. I remember when we met up for dinner in Chicago in 2011 – I still appreciate the hospitality you showed me and my wife in giving us a guided tour of the U of Chicago campus. I guess I shouldn’t expect a callback if I return to Chicago any time soon?

    You disagree pretty strongly with my article, that’s obvious. Fair enough. But you know what I noticed? You’re not the first critic who said I’m a terrible person for writing it, but who declined to say in any detail which parts of it are false (“I won’t bother to dissect it in detail”). Richard Dawkins himself accused me of lying, but wouldn’t or couldn’t say what specifically he thought the lie was.

    Because it’s “obvious”…

  • He has never heard a sexist word pass their lips

    As some of you have already seen, Jerry Coyne has written a blog post complaining that Adam Lee has had the unmitigated temerity to criticize Richard “Beyond Reproach” Dawkins. This is great, isn’t it? Constantly being told by Important Guy Atheists that other Important Guy Atheists must not be criticized by underlings? It’s like being a nun, or a corporal.

    One of the most despicable attacks on Richard Dawkins in recent years (and that’s saying a lot!) has been posted at the Guardian; it’s by Adam Lee, atheist blogger who writes at “Daylight Atheism”. I won’t bother to dissect it in detail because reading it makes me ill. Dissing Richard is a regular thing at the Guardian these days, and there’s no shortage of unbelievers willing to answer the call. Lee’s piece is called “Richard Dawkins has lost it: ignorant sexism gives atheists a bad name.” Read it and weep. If you cheer, you shouldn’t be reading this website.

    Blog, he means. It’s a blog. Why Evolution is True is a blog.

    It’s one-sided, quoting only the anti-Dawkins Usual Suspects, and accuses not only Dawkins but Sam Harris of “ignorant sexism.” To do so, Lee relies on quotes that have been cherry-picked by people determined to bring down Richard and Sam.

    Two men who have not a trace of “ignorant sexism” anywhere in their makeup. No sir! They are the most unsexist two men on the planet. All these quotes that people keep coming up with are…are…they’re forgeries, that’s what!

    It’s time to end this relentless and obsessive hounding of Dawkins and Harris.

    And go back to treating them as sacred and untouchable, like the Prophet! Right? Should we be adding pbuh to their names too?

    And let me say this: I am friends with both Richard and Sam, have interacted with them a great deal, and have never heard a sexist word pass their lips.

    Ahhhh well then. That’s definitive. The fact that I think a lot of things “Richard and Sam” have said are sexist is just because I have that overactive womany radar for sexism, which is obviously wrong. The people we want deciding what isn’t sexist are of course men who are friends with men who are said to have said sexist things. Only they know! And only they have sufficiently sluggish radar to do the job properly.

  • What does “explicitly stated” mean?

    Today Dawkins is angry about an article in the New Statesman titled I was raped when I was drunk. I was 14. Do you believe me, Richard Dawkins?

    He’s angry that the New Statesman didn’t call him. But after all, he did tweet last week, hours after Mark Oppenheimer’s article appeared,

    “Officer, it’s not my fault I was drunk driving. You see, somebody got me drunk.”

    And a later one:

    Raping a drunk woman is appalling. So is jailing a man when the sole prosecution evidence is “I was too drunk to remember what happened.”

    But as I pointed out, jailing wasn’t the issue.

    But the odd thing here is that in his tweets about the New Statesman article he’s claiming that his tweets about rape were explicitly hypothetical.

    In my tweets I explicitly stated that I was considering the hypothetical case of a woman who testified that she COULDN’T REMEMBER.

    Do those two that I just quoted explicitly state that they are hypothetical? No they do not.

  • All those links

    In another turn of the screw, Dawkins called Adam Lee a liar. So now I have to read Adam’s piece again to see if I can find anything that can possibly justify that announcement.

    The atheist movement – a loosely-knit community of conference-goers, advocacy organizations, writers and activists – has been wracked by infighting the last few years over its persistent gender imbalance and the causes of it. Many female atheists have explained that they don’t get more involved because of the casual sexism endemic to the movement: parts of it see nothing problematic about hosting conferences with all-male speakers or having all-male leadership – and that’s before you get to the vitriolic and dangerous sexual harassment, online and off, that’s designed to intimidate women into silence.

    Is that it? That’s not a lie. There are people who think that, and say so – and there certainly is vitriolic and dangerous sexual harassment, online and off. It is designed to intimidate women into silence – many of the people who engage in it say so, regularly.

    Richard Dawkins has involved himself in some of these controversies, and rarely for the better – as with his infamous “Dear Muslima” letter in 2011, in which he essentially argued that, because women in Muslim countries suffer more from sexist mistreatment, women in the west shouldn’t speak up about sexual harassment or physical intimidation. There was also his sneer at women who advocate anti-sexual harassment policies.

    That? I followed the links, and it looks like a fair cop to me.

    On Twitter these last few days, Dawkins has reverted to his old, sexist ways and then some. He’s been very busy snarling about how feminists are shrill harridans who just want an excuse to take offense, and how Harris’s critics (and his own) are not unlike thought police witch-hunter lynch mobs. Dawkins claimed that his critics are engaged in “clickbait for profit”, that they “fake outrage”, and that he wished there were some way to penalize them.

    Ah maybe that’s it – the shrill harridans bit. I did notice that the first time through. I haven’t seen Dawkins say that…I’ve only seen him imply it.

    Or maybe it’s this passage?

    What’s so frustrating, from the standpoint of the large and growing non-religious demographic, is that Dawkins is failing badly to live up to his own standards. As both an atheist and a scientist, he should be the first to defend the principle that no one is above criticism, and that any idea can be challenged, especially an idea in accord with popular prejudices. Instead, with no discernible sense of irony, Dawkins is publicly recycling the bad arguments so often used against him as an atheist: accusing his critics of being “outrage junkies” who are only picking fights for the sake of notoriety; roaring about “thought police” as though it were a bad thing to argue that someone is mistaken and attempt to change their mind; scoffing that they’re “looking for excuses to be angry” as though the tone of the argument, rather than its factual merits, were the most important thing; encouraging those who are targets of criticism to ignore it rather than respond.

    There are certainly no lies there. I could find chapter and verse for each one.

    Adam has requested elucidation; it will be interesting to see if any is forthcoming.

  • Not unlike thought police witch-hunter lynch mobs

    Adam Lee sums up the most recent outbreaks at Comment is Free.

    He was, like me, a big fan of Dawkins. Now? Not so much.

    Neither of us just plunged into this not so much state randomly or on a whim, nor did we do so as an exciting new way to draw attention to ourselves. It had to do with reasons, with things he said and did.

    But over the last few months, Dawkins showed signs of détente with his feminist critics – even progress. He signed a joint letter with the writer Ophelia Benson, denouncing and rejecting harassment; he even apologized for the “Dear Muslima” letter. On stage at a conference in Oxford in August, Dawkins claimed to be a feminist and said that everyone else should be, too.

    I had my doubts about that last item, to be honest, because I was pretty sure he meant a very limited, conservative, Sommersesque brand of “feminism” there, the kind that is good with formal equality but appalled by any attempts to dispel stereotypes or improve attitudes and even behavior. His recent tweets on the subject have confirmed that.

    Then another prominent male atheist, Sam Harris, crammed his foot in his mouth and said that atheist activism lacks an “estrogen vibe” and was “to some degree intrinsically male”. And, just like that, the brief Dawkins Spring was over.

    On Twitter these last few days, Dawkins has reverted to his old, sexist ways and then some. He’s been very busy snarling about how feminists are shrill harridans who just want an excuse to take offense, and how Harris’s critics (and his own) are not unlike thought police witch-hunter lynch mobs. Dawkins claimed that his critics are engaged in “clickbait for profit”, that they “fake outrage”, and that he wished there were some way to penalize them.

    For good measure, Dawkins argued that rape victims shouldn’t be considered trustworthy if they were drinking.

    He also spelled out that it was Freethought Blogs specifically that he was accusing of all this – the network that includes Maryam Namazie, Taslima Nasreen, Tauriq Moosa, Kaveh Mousavi, Hiba Krisht, Avicenna, Nirmukta, Yemi Ilesanmi, etc etc etc.

    Benson, with whom Dawkins had signed the anti-harassment letter just weeks earlier, was not impressed. “I’m surprised and, frankly, shocked by Richard’s belligerent remarks about feminist bloggers over the past couple of days,” she told me. “Part of what made The God Delusion so popular was, surely, its indignant bluntness about religion. It was a best-seller; does that mean he ‘faked’ his outrage?”

    I still would really like to know the answer to that question. I would really like to know why it’s all right for him to be provocative but it’s just cynical money-seeking in people who criticize him.

    On other occasions, Dawkins himself has emphasized the importance of awakening people to injustice and mistreatment they may have overlooked. But when it comes to feminism, he’s steadfastly refused to let his own consciousness be raised. Instead, he clings to his insular and privileged viewpoint – and, worse, he’s creating the impression that “true” atheists all share his retrograde attitudes.

    Thus helping to ensure that atheism and secularism will remain divided and weak.

  • We’re the thought police again

    More managing disagreement ethically from Richard Dawkins.

    daw

    Richard Dawkins ‏@RichardDawkins
    The “Big Sister is Watching You” Thought Police hate @CHSommers’ Factual Feminism, and you can see why.

    That’s ethical disagreement all right – calling feminists who don’t respect Christina Hoff Sommers ‘The “Big Sister is Watching You” Thought Police.’

    What would the other kind look like?

  • Provoking outrage

    I made another attempt to talk reason. I’m absurdly optimistic, aren’t I.

    Richard Dawkins ‏@RichardDawkins 13h
    Can it be true, some bloggers are paid by the click, and consequently fake outrage, or play the bully, in order to attract clicks? Hope not.

    2h
    Answer to my question seems to be yes, and on-line newspapers may be worst offenders – deliberately touting for clicks by provoking outrage.

    Ophelia Benson @OpheliaBenson
    .@RichardDawkins What about you, Richard? 2 million TGD sold, yes? Outrages many, yes? So…what is your point? You good we bad? That’s it?

    @RichardDawkins Haven’t you been – often laudably – provoking outrage for years now? Why rebuke other provokers? Are you being consistent?

    @RichardDawkins I heard you provoking outrage on Seattle public radio 1996. Loved it, & nipped off to your reading at U bookstore.

    @RichardDawkins Your voice was gone, so Lalla did the reading. Small group, but lively. Inspired me to be more vocal about my atheism.

    @RichardDawkins So WHY are you treating “outrage” as a bad thing now, just because you don’t share it? Not fair or consistent.

    @RichardDawkins Ok, you don’t like it when we criticise your friends. But do you really think that’s a good reason to fight dirty?

    @RichardDawkins I do “outrage” posts all the time – about FGM, honor killings, the death of Savita Halappanavar, the pope, the bishops…

    @RichardDawkins …abortion clinics closing all over the US, prayer in school, Boko Haram, witch-hunting (the real kind) in Nigeria…

    @RichardDawkins …poverty, inequality, the massive rise in incarceration in the US, Ebola, “blasphemy” charges in Pakistan…

    @RichardDawkins …and I doubt that you frown on any of that. Why now?

    There’s been no reply. I don’t suppose he’ll ever reply. I don’t understand his thinking here.

  • Setting a place for emotion

    I’ve been very critical* of Richard Dawkins’s recent Twitter dictats on abortion and Down syndrome, but now I get a chance to defend him, and from some of his own ardent supporters at that.

    As you all no doubt know, he posted an apology plus explanation yesterday. What I want to take issue with here is not the post but a comment replying to a pair of comments pointing out the importance of emotions and persuasion in discussions of moral issues.

    Do you have a list of topics at hand about which we should avoid talking logically? That would be most convenient for everyone concerned. Even if you can’t see the absurdity of that, consider that your list would differ from everyone else’s list of sensitive topics and we’d end up with very little that we could indeed discuss rationally.

    You say that you marveled at the Blind Watchmaker and were thrilled by the God Delusion. Did you find them to be well balanced between rational argument and emotional sentiment? I, personally, did not find any patronizing emotional arguments in those two, and if there had been they would not only be unreadable, but insufferable. Why should your sensitivities trump those who are offended by analyzing religion too closely?

    The comment is actually somewhat confusing: it’s not clear if the claim is that logic and emotion should be combined and “balanced,” or that emotion should be excluded. I think, though, in context and given those last two sentences, it’s the second. The claim seems to be that the two books were refreshingly free of emotional arguments. I want to defend Dawkins from that charge, at least when it comes to The God Delusion. That book was not free of emotion at all, nor should it have been. It has plenty of indignation, and rightly so.

    It starts with emotion. The first sentence is emotional. Don’t you remember? It’s one of those memorable opening lines, like “It is a truth universally acknowledged…” or “All happy families are alike…”

    As a child, my wife hated her school and wished she could leave.

    As you know, that sets up an analogy to our situation with regard to religion: many of us hate it and prefer to leave (or, having left long ago or never entered, to stay away).

    This is about feeling. It’s far from purely logical, and it’s not even purely cognitive. It’s not just about truth. It’s about aversion. And that’s appropriate. We are what we are and not something else. We’re not machines, not even computing machines. We have emotions, and they matter. We rebel against mandatory or socially coerced religion because we dislike it.

    This is not to say (as I have seen some bemused or hostile onlookers claim) that arguments should be all emotion and no logic. It’s just to say that emotion can’t and shouldn’t be excluded from discussions of moral issues. (Technical issues are another matter. Feel free to exclude emotions from discussion of bridge-building.)

    More from that preface:

    As a child, my wife hated her school and wished she could leave.
    Years later, when she was in her twenties, she disclosed this
    unhappy fact to her parents, and her mother was aghast: ‘But
    darling, why didn’t you come to us and tell us?’ Lalla’s reply is my
    text for today: ‘But I didn’t know I could.’

    I didn’t know I could.

    I suspect – well, I am sure – that there are lots of people out there
    who have been brought up in some religion or other, are unhappy
    in it, don’t believe it, or are worried about the evils that are done in
    its name; people who feel vague yearnings to leave their parents’
    religion and wish they could, but just don’t realize that leaving is an
    option. If you are one of them, this book is for you.

    You see? Indignation, sympathy, generosity, compassion. And those are good things.

    *Note that that’s not a contravention of the joint statement on managing disagreement ethically. That was the whole point. We are going to disagree at times; that’s inevitable; we can’t possibly have or expect total agreement on every issue. We have to be able to do that without resorting to scorched earth tactics.

  • Trending

    Dawkins is trending on Facebook again, thanks to his Most Recent Tweet of Infamy. At the top of the list I see (I assume the list is different for different people, because of their different Facebook histories) there are a lot of mainstream media stories and some Facebook posts by friends, and then after that…there is a long stream of right-wing, Christian, anti-abortion links.

    Fabulous. Very very helpful.

    There’s The Blaze.

    There’s Christian News Network.

    There’s Life Site News.

    There’s Alan Colmes.

    There’s Life News.

    There’s Ray Comfort.

    Richard Dawkins is being consistent again–with his Darwinian/Nazi ideology of “survival of the fittest.” This time he suggests that down syndrome children aren’t fit to survive, and he has the audacity to advocate the taking of a human life–in the name of morality.

    May he find a place of repentance and trust in Jesus Christ, before he stands before the One in whom he doesn’t believe.

    There’s Breitbart.

    There’s End Time Headlines.

    There’s Al Jazeera, Salon, Huffington Post UK, The Telegraph, The Mirror, The Evening Standard, The Guardian Australia, Sky News, ITV News, Fri Tanke…on and on. I haven’t scrolled to the end yet; maybe there is no end. There’s a lot. At any rate we can be damn sure this has done no favors to atheism or abortion rights.

     

     

     

  • Watch that “all”

    Oh lordy. Again. I should just add a little sub-blog or something: Dawkinswatch.

    This time he’s trying his hand at making authoritative pronouncements about religion versus atheism on Twitter, and…well, I cringed.

    Some good people are religious. Some good people are atheists. All who fight stem cell research & evolution teaching are religious.

    Some good people are religious. Some good people are atheists. All who bomb abortion clinics & all who mutilate clitorises are religious.

    Some atheists are bad. But all stoners, hand-choppers, abortion clinic bombers, evolution deniers, gay-persecutors are religious.

    Some atheists do good, some bad. But atheism drives nobody to do bad. Raligion drives some people to do bad because they think it’s good.

    Oh gawd. Somebody stop him.

    I think I know what he’s trying to say; I think he’s trying to make the point that religion supplies certain kinds of motivation that are absent from atheism. But those blurts are not that point! And they’re wrong.

    And it does matter, because he’s taken to be an atheist authority figure by many many many people, atheists and non-atheists alike. As a mouthy atheist myself, I’m getting increasingly restless about being “represented” by crude slogans like the above.