Scattering blessings
The archbishop of Westminster is full of advice to fellow Catholics (I beg your pardon, I mean to his “flock”) on how they can make themselves disliked by pestering and nagging people.
The Archbishop of Westminster says Catholics should be more ready to make the sign of the cross and say “God bless you” to people.
The Archbishop called on Catholics to respond to the Pope’s hope that they would become “ever more conscious of their dignity as a priestly people”.
Brilliant suggestions. Make intrusive public displays of superstitious gesturing and invoke something called a “blessing” from a non-existent being. Force your religious beliefs on people so that they will be impressed by your “dignity as a priestly people.” Act and talk goddy nonsense in public so that an admiring world can see how it’s done.
Writing a week after the papal visit, Rev Nichols said: “With the blessings of this visit we can be more confident in our faith and more ready to speak about it and let it be seen each day.
“A small step we can all take is to be quicker to say to others that we will pray for them, especially to those in distress.
“Even the simple step of more regularly using the greeting ‘God bless you’, gently and naturally, would make a difference to the tone we set in our daily lives, as would the more frequent use of the sign of the cross.”
Yes, it would make a difference, but not, as the archbish seems to think, in a good way. It’s passive-aggressive bullying, that kind of thing. It’s typical missionary coerciveness, and it is not attractive; it is rude and intrusive and self-important. It’s funny, in a way, but it’s really more depressing than funny – this eagerness to force unmitigated goddy bullshit on everyone.
I think we should take it a step further. Whenever somebody sneezes, instead of just saying “Goblessya”, we should perform a complete re-enactment of the crucifixion of Christ.
Benjamin: it only works if it finishes before the next sneeze.
As for the article, maybe a good rejoinder to “God bless you” could be devised. Some response that would not just seem like taking the mickey. “May the force be with you” or something like that.
On the whole, I don’t really care what stupid pointless ritual people feel the need to indulge in. But there’s a mismatch between what is acceptable behaviour in Christians and Atheists.
If I as an atheist were to end an everyday conversation with one of my Believer friends with a silly “There is no God!” quip I would be regarded as rude, hostile and possibly mentally deranged. I don’t do this, but I have no doubt that few would think that I was smart or pleasant for trying it on.
And yet somehow the reverse is not true. It is deemed perfectly acceptable for Believers to crowbar some sort of inane pro-god aphorism into every available conversation with a non-theist. In fact, to complain about it is seen as intolerant and rude.
Very droll, Ben!
Grania, I don’t either, if it’s not in my face – but the archbish’s whole point is to say “stick it in their faces!” I object a lot to that, partly because of the asymmetry you mention. The asymmetry is part of what makes it a kind of bullying.
Loved it when Nichols talked about the “richness” of the silence of 80,000 people, all managing to keep their mouths shut in front of Ratzinger at the same time. “Richness” doesn’t even begin to describe it!
I like the response someone suggested on Pharyngula: “I’ll dance naked under the oaks for you come Full Moon.”
“ever more conscious of their dignity as a priestly people”.
Aye, ‘priestly’ people should be ever more conscious of their dignity, especially where little children are concerned. In other words, they should reserve their hands for making the sign of the cross. and nowt else that is undignified!
[…] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Skeptic South Africa, Ophelia Benson. Ophelia Benson said: Scattering blessings http://dlvr.it/5vv5l […]
At first I thought of responding to the cross with the ‘bird’, but that would lead to trouble.
My next idea was to reply with wiggling my fingers downward in an FSM fashion. I don’t know if I just invented that gesture or not.
Then I thought about thanking them for making the sign of the T because I’m a Last Thursdayist. I need a quick, but effective, quip and the best I have so far is “Thank you for the Holy T”
Any of these responses will confuse them. Some may offend, but I can say that I am responding in kind. I could say that they offended me first or I could say that my gesture is one of respect as worthy as theirs, depending on context and where I want to go with the encounter.
Maybe someone will make the sign of the cross once too often, and be given his wish!
Aggressive atheists and passive-aggressive theists.
I see people of a certain age only; automatically making the sign of the cross; every day. on the bus and on the street. when they pass by the very many churches. Mind you, only RC churches will do! They end up relentlessly briskly tapping their weary digits to their religious hearts. Old habits die hard.
I also see young people wearing rosary beads around their necks arms and even on rucksacks. They are a very trendy item. It doubtless gives me great satisfaction.
I know I’m going to cop flack for this, lol … but the youngish American evangelist I met at the Crossway Conference last week was a lot smarter (and funnier) than the Archbishop of Westminster. His main advice in his talk was the exact opposite of the archbishop’s – essentially, don’t act weirdly and scare people off. His funniest “don’t” (though it may not seem so funny without the comedic timing or an ingrained sense of how weird evangelicals can actually get) was don’t tell your non-born-again friends that you were considering whether or not to go on a holiday, and then the Lord spoke to you: i.e. you woke up one morning and looked over at the clock which happened to show the time 7:47 … exactly the kind of plane you thought you might travel on.
That kind of thing, he suggested, doesn’t go down well with the unconverted.
I think maybe this guy could also offer better advice to Catholics than is coming from their current hierarchical leaders. But perhaps that just demonstrates that I’m an evangelical Protestant atheist, not a Roman Catholic atheist. ;)
Perhaps when provoked we could form an “A” sign with our fingers, for the scarlet “A” of Atheism – like an upside down “V for Victory” sign with crossbar.
Care would be needed to avoid confusion with that other “V” sign, or with the Blair Witch Project for that matter. See what troubles ensue when extraneous matters are dragged into ordinary civilised discourse.
I think I’ll begin responding with “Thanks! I’ll ask Cthulhu to eat you first!”
@Tulse
I actually use that. It’s fun to explain it afterwards.
I hate to tell you this, but “Goodbye” is actually a contraction of “God be with you”. So now we have to say “See-ya”
How about making the sign of the horn ( index and little finger raised) and saying “Avert!”
Then, when they inquire as to what you’re doing, you get to spread the message of Our Father Below.
I fully support Catholics doing this, because, a) it makes the idiots a lot easier to spot and, b) I’m going to respond to anyone who does this by biting my thumb and giving the sign to ward off the evil eye that my Italian grandmother taught me.
Fair’s fair.
<i>Make intrusive public displays of superstitious gesturing and invoke something called a “blessing” from a non-existent being. Force your religious beliefs on people so that they will be impressed by your “dignity as a priestly people.” Act and talk goddy nonsense in public so that an admiring world can see how it’s done.</i>
If someone said “god bless you” to me, I wouldn’t take offense. In fact, I’d kinda take it as a compliment because it’s usualyy said in response to something good, like a charitable gesture or a good tip.
“God bless you” is just a euphemism for saying “you’re a good person” It’s a healthy form of positive reinforcement that encourages individuals to act with kindness, generosity and empathy.
Religions should mostly be criticised for any potential danger they may present for society’s jurisprudence and legal frame work. A religion that stakes no claim to the public space, and which concerns itslef mailny with spiritual affairs should rarely be the object of scathing criticisms positngs such as this represent.
I don’t wish to go off topic, and I certainly don’t want to distract from Ms Ophilia’s anti-Catholic amusements, although I WOULD like to present a very concrete example of how religious interference in politics can have VERY negative consequences. UNfortunately ( at least for some here) my example does not involve Christianity.
About ten years ago in Mali, a good-sized African country, legislators passed a law ( 117 members for and only FIVE against) that would have brought gender equality up to a level similar to that enjoyed in (nominally) Christian countires for decades now. HOwever, the country’s Muslim clerics denounced the measures as the “work of the devil”, and despite the fact about 97% of the country’s MPs supported the legislation, the country’s PM could not sign the bill and the ammendments never became law.
Mali is 90% Muslim and about 10% Christian ( mostly Roman Catholic). From what I can glean the country’s Catholics had absolutely no complaints about the legislation and overwhelmingly supported it.
Scroll down to the section in the link entitled “Mali”. Trust me, saying “god bless you” is a mere detail, especially if you’re a women.
http://www.pointdebasculecanada.ca/article/1403-opposing-hassan-al-banna-and-the-muslim-brotherhood-is-not-some-kind-of-racism.php
I cannot understand why, when it comes to issues of religion and the fast-changing religious landscape, Western Leftists keep writing and arguing as though Christianity were still in the ascendant.
It’s amusing to me, the English saying of ‘God Bless You’ after a sneeze. In Poland one says “to your health” (na zdrowie) and so in English I also tend to say ‘to your health’ when someone sneezes.
In the US I’ve once been told that I was insulting Christianity and removing tradition from language by not saying ‘god bless you’ after a sneeze. It’s funny because as my Polish grandmother explained to me once that she considers it quite inappropriate to invoke god in such a flippant way, like after someone sneezes.
In her mind saying the exact words, ‘god bless you’ (niech Bóg cię błogosławi) is reserved for special invocations of blessing and times of worship. It is not something to be thrown around. She also thinks that faith is a private matter and between her and god, definitely not one to push her blessings on those who might not want them.
Shifter…………
Have you read anything on this site at all? Have you looked at the articles on the front page? Do you seriously think I criticize Catholicism while carefully avoiding criticism of Islam? Seriously?
And (as I said a few days ago) use the format buttons; don’t do your own html, because it doesn’t work, and you make a mess. Pay attention.
Y’know, I am actually in total support of more engaged, talkative religionists. I don’t mind the fundies because they’re vocal, or because they’re serious. I mind them because they are wrong. We’re well past the days where religion is a private matter, best left out of polite conversation. This is the same place I think much of the anti-atheism vitriol is rooted in, particularly from fellow atheists, who really just want to shut down the discussion as much as possible. If people actually believe this hogwash, let’s get it out in the open, I say.
Yeah, but this “Shifter” guy is neither engaged nor talkative, he’s just here to bang some crackpot racist drum about how the Muslim hordes are going to overrun Europe.
Shifter may be inattentive, but the idea of a Muslim majority in Western Europe within the lifetime of the younger folks here isn’t that farfetched — indeed, looking at birth rates and immigration rates and extrapolating the numbers a bit, it would appear almost inevitable unless one or both of those factors changes drastically. Visiting Austria in 1987 and again in 2010 brought that point home to me visually in a way that the numbers couldn’t. That aside, simply pointing out empirical data is not “crackpot racism.”
I also note that Ophelia is as anti-Islamic mysogeny (if not more so) as she is anti-Christian mysogeny, which is the main thing that Shifter didn’t bother to mention.
Yeah, but this “Shifter” guy is neither engaged nor talkative, he’s just here to bang some crackpot Europe.racist drum about how the Muslim hordes are going to overrun
So it’s Sept 30th and are you near the Eiffel Tower? Europe is most definately the object of a hostile takeover, and as the years slip past, more and more threats and attacks will occur.
To call ythe increible mistreatment of women across whole swaths of the Islamic world “misogyny” is a misnomer.
For misogyny to exist, women have to exist, but in large parts of the Muslim world, especially rural areas what we call “women” could best be described as “sub-males” there are no women, there are only Males and then a series of shrouded sub-males.
Were I a women in Europe, and were I truly aware of what’s happening, I’d be half frightened to death at the rapid religious transformation now taking place. High Muslim birthrates, high levels of Muslim immigration, and the coming demise of the boomer generation mean that in a mere 20 years whole areas of Europe will look little different than Yemen or Waziristan.
But hey! You won’t have to endure The Pope!
Nor his burkha-style politics of misogyny.
Shifter – wake up. Did you read my comment above (#22)? Would you please answer the question before you say anything further? If you’re at all familiar with this site (the front page as well as Notes and Comment) you’ll know very well that I don’t need instruction in Islam v women from you. Nor do readers.
Either pay attention to where you are and stop banging (in a hectoring manner) on an open door, or go away.
“Shifter – wake up. Did you read my comment above (#22)? Would you please answer the question before you say anything further? If you’re at all familiar with this site (the front page as well as Notes and Comment) you’ll know very well that I don’t need instruction in Islam v women from you. Nor do readers.”
Well, I,m commenting on this article, and article that provides only one link and which can’t be more than two or three hundred words.
I,ve read it tne times.
You’re talking about the Pope and his opinions, but on those subjects I’ve probably read a great deal more than you.
I don’t understand your shrill indignation about someone saying “god bless you” or about an entire religion that is no longer in the ascendant.
I’ve a question; how does my attendance at Sunday Mass or saying “god bless you” to someone who’s just engaged in an act of charity pose, in any way, shape or form, a threat to your rights as a citizen of a democracy, or to your right to gender equality?
Can the same be said of thse attending Friday Prayers as required by the ascendant religion?
Your postings seem to indicate that you live in the past, and that you continue to see threats where there no longer are any, and yet see no threats whatsoever where there actually are some. If you are both an ardent feminist AND atheist, I would suggest you prioritise these threats so as to better anticipate what’s coming down the pipeline. If you refuse to do so, you’ll create a blindspot that’Ll render you and other women vulnerable
I have already done that grunt-work, and had to battle a lot of “soft” racist demons in order to do so effectively and with clarity.
I have absolutely no problem with atheists, and have discussions with them all the time. Is BaW a weblog looking to engage with people of differing opinions, or is it your personnal fan club?
By the way, I’m not in favour of a ‘moratorium’ on stoning female adulterers, I’m in favour of a complete ban on the practice…in all places and at all times.
I just felt I owed you some clarity.