They all stated without hesitation that it was wrong and forbidden
I taught a group of Algerian Muslim men here a couple of months ago. Without any provocation from my side, they asked me what I thought about gay people.
I had been warned by my boss (eager not to lose paying students) not to be pro-gay or say anything that might offend them (what like expressing views of a decent, tolerant human being?). He told me that a male teacher had said something to the class that showed he supported LGBT rights. They were deeply offended and told my boss to get another teacher for them, which he did.
So I turned the question on the men and asked them what they thought. They all stated without hesitation that it was wrong and forbidden by the Koran. I am sure many Catholics and members of other major religions would say the same thing too.
These were not extremists or radicals, they were educated, middle-class Muslim men. I am sure this is just the tip of the iceberg. Let´s face it, patriarchal religion was, and is, like a cancer on this planet. It oppresses women, children and men. We cannot let multi-cultural tolerance become tolerance of the totally unacceptable (and yes that includes women wearing hijab).
We know all too well that many Catholics and members of other major religions would say the same thing.
No surprise here. The PEW research foundation has studied Islam across nations and found that a vast majority, 70%, of Muslims are in agreement with Sharia.
The majority of Muslims in the world are fanatics. Sure there are 30% who are “moderates” at some level, but the moderates are by far the minority.
“These were not extremists or radicals, they were educated, middle-class Muslim men”
It is a common mistake to these two distinctions as opposite poles of a single quality. They are not.
Education is the mark of the capacity to acquire information, retrieve it later and grasp its implication.
Radicalism, particularly religious radicalism, marks the adaptation, shared with other animals, in which the individual has not developed the capacity to question the initial, default answers to potential threats predicated on no more than how “one” feels. All religion stems from this but there are degrees of development that allow some questioning to occur without being seen as self-violating.
Education is no sure cure for that undeveloped state in a person. can be, but there’s nothing that necessitates Someone working with the proper development, though he lacked an education would be more civilized than a well educated genius who was not so developed.
And this doesn’t even take into account the logical biases and flaws we are all heir to.
Catholics, huh? Well, if you are interested in reactions of people in more distant and exotic parts of the world, here it goes.
Here in Poland we have a nationalist-Catholic organization called „All-Polish Youth”. Sweet people. Soon after the Orlando attack, on their Facebook site you could read the infamous quote from Leviticus (“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them”), attached to a photo of the Orlando club.
This provoked a lot of outrage and the Facebook post was removed. However, on their Facebook site we read now:
In Winnicki’s post, shared by the All-Polish Youth, we read:
*Literally: “a gun-free brothel infested with alien immigrants”.
How do you like our Catholic youth, the future of our nation? Yup, I’m sure you are enchanted. Me too. Believe me.
On the other hand, soon after the massacre one of our most popular leftist politicians* has said in an interview that he sees “no difference between the religious radicalism of the Islamists and the radicalism of some Christians”. Literally speaking, this is of course quite correct (note the quantifier “some” in “some Christians”) … but as a political message just after the killings? Hmm…
*Which means that he can count on perhaps 10% of votes in the next presidential election – that is, if he is both lucky and smart enough to abstain from such remarks in the future.
Good night to all of you.
[…] a comment by Ariel on They all stated without hesitation that it was wrong and […]
We have Christians–Protestant Christians–openly applauding the massacre here in the U.S. Oh, they say they wouldn’t have done it, themselves, but it was right all the same. Because God.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatches/2016/06/13/steven-anderson-the-gays-had-it-coming/
@5
Why not just go one step further and adopt the ACLU’s position that the massacre was basically the fault of Christians and the GOP?
Jesus, there are about a dozen Muslim majority countries where the death penalty for homosexuality is APPLIED.
ALL of the others have hefty prison sentences for the ‘crime’
I’m gay, so please, no whatabouttery
It’s Ramadan and so it’s HUNTING season.
They tried holding gay pride celebrations in wonderfully moderate Sarajevo a few years back.
The gays were chased down the streets and pounded to a pulp.
Gay Pride in Rome, otoh, goes off without a hitch.
John I don’t think we’re engaging in whataboutery here. It may seem like a fine distinction but I think there is one between broadening the discussion to include the local religions too, and saying no not Islam but Christianity.
But do I think Islam as practiced in the real world is the worst? Hell yes.
I saw a reference recently to a survey of British Xtians. More than half of them either didn’t know, or didn’t believe that Jesus was supposed to have been resurrected.
When Muslims say they ‘believe in’ Sharia, I wonder how many have ANY notion of what they might be acceding to? And since Islamic law has at least five major, conflicting, ‘schools,’ can anyone make blithe claims about what ‘Sharia’ does or doesn’t say?
John the Drunkard @8,
Yes, I was wondering that, too.
I’m reminded of the classic Daily Show interview with an American politician who was on some crusade about the Ten Commandments. I forget if he was trying to get them posted in schools or courtrooms, or if he was one of those who wanted to declare them to be actual law in his city or state; anyway, the point is that he was proclaiming them to be the basis of American law and morality, the cornerstone of society, etc.
The interviewer asked: What are the Ten Commandments? He was stumped. I think he stammered out two or three, and then started trying to change the subject.