From what I hear from people who voted for him (and (I believe) it’s largely partisan loyalty (because it’s easier than making a rational decision)), is that he aggressively implemented conservative policies, and that they approved of the results (usually citing economic prosperity, border strength, etc.), while they ignore his nasty immaturity and stupidity entirely. Basically the ends justify the means. I think some of the reason for this is his arrogant nationalism, which is thinly disguised as patriotism (MAGA), and we can see this attitude in the ramping up of the “Democrats are ruining the country” propaganda coming from the right. The trouble is that a stupid and immature leader, when fueled by greed and ego, is historically a recipe for disaster (with Jan. 6 being a close call). If it weren’t for the rule of law in the US government, and her checks and balances (of which Trump has proven he has little regard for), those 4 years could have been much worse. We might not be so lucky if there is a next time. I don’t consider him pragmatic or moderate at all. Racism, separatism, and nationalism are not the attributes of a moderate, and as far as pragmatics, well that depends on an evaluation of what the goals are.
I do wonder what use is it to go on about this sort of thing… Everyone knows he does this shit and they either love it, find it appalling, or aren’t moved by it one way or another. A better examination would be of whatever policy “positions” he has and what that would look like (some people are doing this).
I often wonder that myself… it’s just, are we re-running 2015-2016 again? “Don’t the rubes see how fucking evil he is?”
And yes, I know the general vibe here is “we’re all fucked and this is inevitable” (could be true) but just seems like so much flailing is going on. How does one change hearts and minds (or at least cajole the unfortunately distributed to vote the right way)?
I’ve known quite a few people who loved Trump for his authoritarianism, racism, and especially sexism, but when asked would say it was because of his economic policies. Let’s be honest: he had few economic policies (or any policies) that would merit the name. He stumbled around not knowing what he was doing, not particularly formulating policies other than doing whatever came through his mind at that moment, and spent most of his term watching television. Anyone who actually says anything about his aggressive pursuit of conservative policies is a braying jackass. The only ‘policy’ he had was “built the wall”. Well, other than “lock her up”, which he did not manage to do because there were still some adults in the room.
This is the same thing with Hillary. People who didn’t vote for her didn’t want to say it was because she was a woman, but because she was ambitious. Seriously? If you run for president, you are ambitious. Obama was ambitious…I didn’t hold that against either of them. I don’t see ambition necessarily as a bad thing, but when the ambitious one is a woman, a lot of people see it as a bad thing.
When will journalists realize people lie? Not just to pollsters, not just to journalists, but to themselves? Yes, we all do it. Cut through the crap and try to figure out what we really mean by “moderate” – a word with a definition that has been stretched as far and thin as “woman” – you’re a moderate if you can find someone to say you are.
BK @ 4 – Well sure I’m flailing, but that’s what I do. I certainly don’t delude myself that I know how to fix any of it. And I still think “Don’t the rubes see how fucking evil he is?” – or as I would put it, why do Republicans love his cruelty and bullying? – is a question worth asking. I don’t expect an answer, but it remains a genuine puzzle to me. I don’t understand why the brutality, the lying, the sadism, the contempt, the raping and grabbing are not a turnoff. I think it matters. I think it’s interesting as well as baffling. I think it goes on being interesting over time, because it keeps getting worse over time, so I go on asking about it. Of course it’s no “use” but most things are no use.
I’ve never heard any answers about why they would vote for such a stupid asshole, and I’ve asked many times. The best answer (or maybe the most honest) I’ve had is that “his personality doesn’t matter” (but mostly I get silence). I don’t however see it as his “personality” so much as his complete lack of character, so all I can assume is that they think it’s part of the liberal (fake) news cycle (they say) and that it will blow over. Or something. And it has, over and over again. With such sustained abuse, contempt, and general assholery, it’s truly puzzling that his supporters don’t see him for what he is. But then again it points me back to my own overestimation of people’s concern and intelligence generally. Maybe they don’t want to be bothered with thinking about it. Lazy ideological lockstep and failure to think critically are not uncommon.
From what I hear from people who voted for him (and (I believe) it’s largely partisan loyalty (because it’s easier than making a rational decision)), is that he aggressively implemented conservative policies, and that they approved of the results (usually citing economic prosperity, border strength, etc.), while they ignore his nasty immaturity and stupidity entirely. Basically the ends justify the means. I think some of the reason for this is his arrogant nationalism, which is thinly disguised as patriotism (MAGA), and we can see this attitude in the ramping up of the “Democrats are ruining the country” propaganda coming from the right. The trouble is that a stupid and immature leader, when fueled by greed and ego, is historically a recipe for disaster (with Jan. 6 being a close call). If it weren’t for the rule of law in the US government, and her checks and balances (of which Trump has proven he has little regard for), those 4 years could have been much worse. We might not be so lucky if there is a next time. I don’t consider him pragmatic or moderate at all. Racism, separatism, and nationalism are not the attributes of a moderate, and as far as pragmatics, well that depends on an evaluation of what the goals are.
I do wonder what use is it to go on about this sort of thing… Everyone knows he does this shit and they either love it, find it appalling, or aren’t moved by it one way or another. A better examination would be of whatever policy “positions” he has and what that would look like (some people are doing this).
What use is it to go on about anything?
I often wonder that myself… it’s just, are we re-running 2015-2016 again? “Don’t the rubes see how fucking evil he is?”
And yes, I know the general vibe here is “we’re all fucked and this is inevitable” (could be true) but just seems like so much flailing is going on. How does one change hearts and minds (or at least cajole the unfortunately distributed to vote the right way)?
I’ve known quite a few people who loved Trump for his authoritarianism, racism, and especially sexism, but when asked would say it was because of his economic policies. Let’s be honest: he had few economic policies (or any policies) that would merit the name. He stumbled around not knowing what he was doing, not particularly formulating policies other than doing whatever came through his mind at that moment, and spent most of his term watching television. Anyone who actually says anything about his aggressive pursuit of conservative policies is a braying jackass. The only ‘policy’ he had was “built the wall”. Well, other than “lock her up”, which he did not manage to do because there were still some adults in the room.
This is the same thing with Hillary. People who didn’t vote for her didn’t want to say it was because she was a woman, but because she was ambitious. Seriously? If you run for president, you are ambitious. Obama was ambitious…I didn’t hold that against either of them. I don’t see ambition necessarily as a bad thing, but when the ambitious one is a woman, a lot of people see it as a bad thing.
When will journalists realize people lie? Not just to pollsters, not just to journalists, but to themselves? Yes, we all do it. Cut through the crap and try to figure out what we really mean by “moderate” – a word with a definition that has been stretched as far and thin as “woman” – you’re a moderate if you can find someone to say you are.
BK @ 4 – Well sure I’m flailing, but that’s what I do. I certainly don’t delude myself that I know how to fix any of it. And I still think “Don’t the rubes see how fucking evil he is?” – or as I would put it, why do Republicans love his cruelty and bullying? – is a question worth asking. I don’t expect an answer, but it remains a genuine puzzle to me. I don’t understand why the brutality, the lying, the sadism, the contempt, the raping and grabbing are not a turnoff. I think it matters. I think it’s interesting as well as baffling. I think it goes on being interesting over time, because it keeps getting worse over time, so I go on asking about it. Of course it’s no “use” but most things are no use.
I’ve never heard any answers about why they would vote for such a stupid asshole, and I’ve asked many times. The best answer (or maybe the most honest) I’ve had is that “his personality doesn’t matter” (but mostly I get silence). I don’t however see it as his “personality” so much as his complete lack of character, so all I can assume is that they think it’s part of the liberal (fake) news cycle (they say) and that it will blow over. Or something. And it has, over and over again. With such sustained abuse, contempt, and general assholery, it’s truly puzzling that his supporters don’t see him for what he is. But then again it points me back to my own overestimation of people’s concern and intelligence generally. Maybe they don’t want to be bothered with thinking about it. Lazy ideological lockstep and failure to think critically are not uncommon.