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Men brag in public of taking a baby away from her mother as if she were a jacket or an umbrella.
Men using women to gestate babies for them has nothing whatever to do with either democracy or equality.
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Men brag in public of taking a baby away from her mother as if she were a jacket or an umbrella.
Men using women to gestate babies for them has nothing whatever to do with either democracy or equality.
I’m against the commodification of animals as well (not a popular idea, I know), but paying to produce human beings as you would pets or livestock is particularly revolting. I don’t understand the reasoning behind choosing surrogacy over adoption. Maybe there isn’t any.
I’ll admit that I used to be on the fence about so-called surrogacy. My then picture of it, only partially formed, was dominated by the colors of freedom and medical necessity, perhaps some science fiction, too. It seemed like such a small, fringe issue, one with which I’d likely never have anything to do, that exerting further intellectual energy on it was useless. So I went with the view that was prima facie consistent with my generally liberal politics and left it at that. Like the trans issue, only after wresting my mind free from the grips of the Dem/Rep dichotomy was I able–forced, really–to revisit, review, and revise my view on surrogacy.
twiliter: A baby isn’t mine unless it was formed from my generic material. That’s probably the nascent reasoning.
Hand Luggage?
I don’t mind that bit, it’s clearly just a joke.
Then again, given the nature of “surrogacy,” it’s not an ideal joke…
Nullius @2 I think the genetic link is just male ego. So in the case of a woman who wanted to be a mother and couldn’t have children herself, who would it serve to have her husband’s or male partner’s children by surrogate? And then what of the birth mother, again? No, I think in the case above, being that only one of them could be the natural father, that it’s a male ego thing. One of them is not the father. Then there’s the bought and paid for aspect, that’s what troubles me more, morally speaking.
I think part of the surrogacy thing is also that there can be a shortage of babies; there are a lot of children that are not newborns available, but so many people insist it has to be ‘theirs’ from the beginning. Also, there are a lot of babies available that are not perfect specimens. They may be a different ethnicity (and now the adoption system is making it more difficult to adopt children of other ethnicity, and rightfully so, if there is any hope of putting them with someone of their own ethnicity).
If you want a perfect, white baby that you know the genetics of, surrogacy seems to be the answer. Since the woman doesn’t matter, only the baby, it is not an issue. Buy a uterus to use; there is always some poor woman who needs the money and you can exploit her while feeling good that you “helped” her.
Imagine finding out later in life what your price tag was. Or maybe I’m being silly and people don’t really think about such things.
Twiliter, adoption comes with a hefty price tag as well, as do children conceived through IVF, even when donor gametes aren’t involved.
Iknklast, in the US and Canada surrogates aren’t poor women. They are usually solidly middle class and usually already have children of their own. Adoption usually involves poor women, and I have to imagine is far more traumatic and exploitative than surrogacy where a woman knowingly agrees to carry a pregnancy for someone else and receives fair compensation for it. Very few women choose adoption because of how traumatic it is, yet people are more supportive of adoption than surrogacy.
Adopting older children out of foster care is really not something many people are equipped for. The vast majority of children in foster care have moderate to severe disabilities, physical, emotional, or educational. Many are part of sibling groups and have relatives they know and adoptive families have to manage those relationships, which can be very disruptive. I have several friends who have adopted foster children, and they are truly special people. One friend adopted a young girl whose mother was a drug addict who would get clean and then relapse. They maintained a relationship until the birth mother died, I believe from an overdose. That is a lot of trauma to parent a child through. For most people who want to build a family with children, adopting from foster care really is not the right option for them.
Eava, I don’t think all surrogates in the US are solidly middle class; I can’t speak for Canada. Perhaps that is the intention, but I think it would be hard to run any kind of surrogacy program strictly in the middle class. To make it work, you need women who need something. I don’t know any middle-class women who want to give nine months of their life to a risky, physically demanding, and life-changing process unless it is for a friend…and even then.
I refused surrogacy for my sister; my younger sister also refused. We understood the consequences, and what it would require. It wasn’t going to happen.
Eava @8 My own daughter cost me plenty of time and money to have and to raise too, as did my stepkids. That’s not the point I was making. I understand your points about adoption, and honestly I probably wouldn’t be willing to adopt a child for the reasons you describe. I think the people who do are extraordinarily selfless, not to mention foster parents, but there is the option of not having children as well, and I know quite a few people who never had them, and they are in fact productive and content people, some of the best I know. I don’t find the ability to rent a woman’s womb and then purchase her child, just because you can afford it, and aren’t willing to wait, a particularly righteous thing to do.
“hand luggage” stuck out at me, too.
It didn’t read as a joke to me. Perhaps that is just me. Were they trying to be cute and concise at the same time?
Well not a laugh riot joke, just a metaphor – rather like “bundle of joy” I suppose. They were at the airport, they were holding the baby, they did a little throwaway line about hand luggage. Anyone could make the same joke about schlepping a baby around an airport. It’s no big deal, I just don’t think that bit damns them the way paying women to crank out customized babies damns people.
I second iknklast’s point that adoption is often not a feasible option for couples seeking a healthy, developmentally unimpaired infant or toddler. The demand for such children far outstrips the supply. Couples who hire gestational surrogates rather than adopting are not necessarily narcissists incapable of loving a genetically unrelated child. I think many have just correctly concluded that it’s their best shot at a normal parenting experience.
None of this is to defend gestational surrogacy. Parenting is a common human experience, and one that most people find profoundly meaningful, but it isn’t a human right. If you don’t have at least one functional female reproductive system in your relationship, then there’s no ethical route to parenthood other than adoption. (And that’s adoption as an ideal—in reality, the adoption industry is riddled with ethical shortcomings.)
Ophelia @12
Ah. Now I get it. Thanks.
Welcome!
My sister and her husband tried to adopt from foster care. Three times. Another factor is the difficulty of working with always difunctional state child welfare agencies, which withheld vital information, provided no support, and even misled my sister.
All three children were severely damaged by their biological parents. The first, an eight year old boy, was hyper sexualized (at eight), violent in school, abusive to my sisters’ dogs, congenital liars, and always had an atmosphere of violence. What would the poor kid be like at 15? One might say they should have kept trying nonetheless, but this kid was scary. Fetal alcohol abuse, an addicted mother, brother in foster care/group homes as well.
The second refused all attempts at bonding. The only thing she was interested in was reuniting with her (addicted) mother.
The third was not as…scary.. as the first but still had similar issues. Including the violence, fetal alcohol syndrome, serious learning disabilities. Like Tristan (the first boy) he would have been terrifying as he grew into adolescence, no matter what my sister and husband tried to do.
I cannot say at all that they did the wrong thing in giving the kids back to the system. Note that all three cases involved “trial” placements. Sad how many damaged children are out there.