Azza
Ah yes people who object to men stealing sporting wins from women are “nasty” and to be shrugged off. Shrug shrug shruggity shrug, bitches. The Daily Beast:
A trans university swimmer attacked by right-wing media for smashing records in her first meet as a woman says she expected some “pushback” but has chosen not to “engage” in the nasty online debate.
The scare-quotes should be on “as a woman” not “engage.” There’s no such thing as “as a woman.” If you’re not a woman then you’re not a woman; you don’t get to take women’s stuff by saying you’re doing it “as a woman.”
Over the weekend, Lia Thomas—now a member of the University of Pennsylvania women’s swim team after three years on the men’s team—smashed multiple swimming records at the Zippy Invitational in Ohio…
Yes quite, after three years on the men’s team, because he’s a man, with a man’s build and a man’s strength. “She” set records, the Daily Beast drools. Yes of course he did, because he competed against women.
The New York Post Editorial Board slammed Thomas in an essay on Thursday, calling the swimmer “selfish” for competing among women.
And what do you call it, Brooke Leigh Howard of the Daily Beast? Not selfish? Not a shameless punch in the face to all the women in those races?
Thomas, though, in an interview with the SwimSwam Podcast, said that the guidelines from the International Olympic Committee for intersex and trans athletes are fair, with rules that are inclusive and “promote competition integrity” while allowing athletes to compete in whatever category makes them comfortable.
Well he would, wouldn’t he. Thomas says it’s ok for him to cheat – of course he says that, so that he can go on cheating. And the categories are not there to make men “comfortable” competing against women.
And this is where the gaslighting and the teeth-kicking mostly are. Because in that statement, the author is flat out saying that she(?) knows perfectly well that the guy is a guy and that there’s nothing women can do about it.
And she knows that we know that she….
Being “comfortable” in this context exemplifies the severity of today’s moral decadence. Whoever allowed him on the team and allowed him to compete are also complicit. Women’s sports are fast becoming an illegitimate farce. I wonder how this twisted bell can ever be unrung.
Of course, with men competing in the women’s sports, this means women will no longer be comfortable there. So they will have to create a new spot? Sure. Which the men will then invade under the umbrella of “inclusive”.
Used to be TRAs defended transwomen in women’s sports by insisting such athletes were a small, negligible minority who wouldn’t change the competition. Of course they’re not going to “take over” by setting all the records — that was the same paranoid rhetoric bigots used for blacks and gays. I thought at the time they were kidding themselves. When transwomen started setting records and changing women’s sports, they were going to spin on a dime.
Given the nature of the claim (TWAW) it was not going to be possible to rethink the commitment. Nor would it be possible to backtrack and insist on various hormonal handicaps — or even keep the ones that were already there. If 98% of all women’s teams consisted of nothing BUT transwomen, a TRA has no other choice but to applaud the brave “women” who overcame adversity to be their authentic athletic selves. The whole “but it won’t happen” song and dance routine would rapidly morph into a “so what, it’s fine” victory jig.
I think the same about their elaborate insistence that transwomen pose “no threat” to women in women’s safe spaces. It couldn’t matter to them either way.
Katie Ledecky is an extremely gifted long-distance swimmer. She’s broken the world record in the 1500 meter women’s freestyle six times, most recently in 2018 with a mark of 15:20.48.
The first man to swim 1500 meters faster than that mark was Stephen Holland. In 1976. The record has been broken 13 times since then, and currently stands at 14:31.02.
In the most recent world aquatics championship, her record would have put her 25th in the qualifying heats.
So, yay, no more Katie Ledeckys.
Sastra, I think you hit it right on. Of course, originally they were also saying “but for a trans woman to compete, she has to be on hormones and lower her testosterone level!” Yeah, to a level at which women would be disqualified for doping.
Even as they were saying this, they were working to remove that requirement.
Many of the most vocal are simply liars.
If they let men (identifiable by their sexual apparatus, budgie smugglers, etc) into womens’ swimming, then they might as well also let in seals and otters; which would soon sort it all out.
Dolphins! Orcas! Grey whales!
@iknklast;
My guess is that they’re not lying, but failing to consider contingencies, and rationalizing when presented with new facts.
In a way, it’s like dealing with people against abortion. IMO the majority have decided that there’s no relevant distinction between a fertilized egg and a newborn baby. Once that’s accepted then killing a newborn because it’s the product of rape or incest — or because it’s dependent on its mother — is going to be unacceptable. The legitimate approach then is to return to the primary question: is an embryo a baby/ is a transwoman a woman? In both cases those who affirm inject a moral component. If you care about human life and dignity, then you must agree.
The claim being made to justify male inclusion in women’s sports was ‘once a trans woman transitions, all physical advantage is levelled’. This claim was being made while the TRAs were pushing to make it irrelevant, by removing the need to transition. Now that we have an untransitioned man sweeping up records, the people making that argument have fallen silent. I am sure many earnestly believed that excuse, and were unaware of the pressure to remove transitioning as a requirement, but it doesn’t matter much now. They have fallen silent, because otherwise they become a terf. The rest were lying all along.
Ah, I see now that Lia has undergone hormone therapy. In that case, Lia does not personally stand as an example of my point.
Holms, who is “Lia”? I thought we were talking about Thomas.
Roj,
Personally, I’m perfectly happy to use people’s adopted names (although I utterly reject the taboo on deadnaming). People change their names all the time. I have: my name is Robert but I hate it and call myself Rob. I’m latsot as least as much as I’m anything else.
But it’s a personal thing. I generally speaking won’t use bespoke pronouns unless it’s an issue of politeness but I’ll use bespoke names. For one thing, the confusion helps throw the ridiculousness of the whole business into sharp relief.
@latsot – Elliott Page was trending because of an appearance of “Ellen” Page on Stephen Colbert’s show prior to her declaration of manhood. At the time of the show she had not yet changed her name, and yet, the Brigades had their torches all fired up because she was being deadnamed.
It still causes confusion and consternation, sturm und drang.
Roj, I don’t know if the name change was done through the official process of changing one’s legal name or not. Lacking any indication either way, and lacking any desire to check, I will just take a person’s name as it is given. Seconding latsot regarding the stupid prohibition against ‘deadnaming’ – it is a matter of historical record that Lia’s name used to be Thomas; asking us to pretend otherwise is asking us to lie.
Lia’s name still is Thomas (last name); you meant his former first name of Will, I’m sure. Tricky, these people with common first names as last names.
Sastra, you may be right, but I still suspect at least the most vocal of them of lying. Veronica Ivy comes to mind, talking about how they need to transition, even as he was agitating to have that requirement removed. The trans allies may have been kidding themselves, dealing with cognitive dissonance, or whatever, but I suspect at least a portion are simply slinging bullshit.
latsot @13 Me too, I don’t hate Robert so much, but my Dad and Grandpa both went by Bob, which I did hate, so another Rob here. :)
Good grief, they’re (we’re) everywhere! Luckily my legal name is actually Rob. My dear departed mum said she figured people would want to shorten it, so she saved them the trouble. Of course they’ve tried to lengthen it ever since.