A London street in 2015
Giles Dilnot @reporterboy
Amazed. That’s quite a sign for a London street in 2015.
Description: a demonstration, with one person in the foreground holding a sign that reads:
THIEVING MURDERING “ISRAELIS” GO HOME TO POLAND, GERMANY, USA
The flags look like Palestine?
I’m sure she thinks she’s a ‘progressive.’
What’s the point, that criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic, that criticism of Israel’s colonialism and theft of Palestinian land is anti-Semitic, or something else entirely? Or should we have forgotten about the Palestinians by 2015?
My take is that “Israels” are wanted out of London (or UK) and “back” to PL, DE or US.
Seems antisemitic to me.
And if the demonstrator wants that people to leave Palestine, she conveniently forgot to mention RUS (or UK) for example.
Or does she exclusively mean those who are thieving & murdering? Hardly convincing.
RJW, perhaps the point is that, in 2015, the word used is “ISRAELS” rather than JEWS.
(The sentiment itself is hardly new, is it?)
In context, I think it means “Get out of (Israel/Palestine) and go home to…”, not “Get out of here (London).”
But it’s not clear.
Is it this protest?
Pro-Palestinian protest stops traffic in London shopping district
Lady Mondegreen, @ 6
“In context, I think it means “Get out of (Israel/Palestine) and go home to…”, not “Get out of here (London).”
Yes, I’d agree, Israelis written as “Israelis” (or is it “Israels”) seems to support your interpretation. Zionists, I’m my experience, also usually write Palestine as “Palestine” or Palestinians as “Palestinians”. I wonder if Dilnot misunderstood the context, it seems obviously a pro-Palestinian rally.
John Morales, @ 5
“RJW, perhaps the point is that, in 2015, the word used is “ISRAELS” rather than JEWS.”
Yes, that’s a code that some people use, however the claim that critics of Israel are necessarily anti-Semitic is an obvious propaganda technique, however I’d say the sign refers to the ME conflict not London.
“Zionists, I’m my experience, also usually write Palestine as “Palestine” or Palestinians as “Palestinians”.”
To be fair, that’s something that seems more common among right-wing Zionists outside Israel (especially in the US). At least that’s who I normally see it coming from. In Israel, even in right-wing circles, the existence of a Palestinian people seems more an accepted reality.
RJW to Lady Mondegreen:
It says Israel should cease to exist because it consists of thieving, murdering foreigners.
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To me,
Leaving aside that the sign is not merely criticism of Israal, nobody here has claimed that.
(However, the claim that the claim that critics of Israel are necessarily anti-Semitic is an obvious propaganda technique is an obvious propaganda technique ;) )
For a start, that “GO HOME TO” is hideous. Yes Zionism is grossly unfair to Palestinians, but on the other hand the reason it seemed necessary was because Jews had no “HOME” – especially not in Germany or Poland.
For a finish, the sign just sounds like any old Blackshirt abuse. Not the way to protest the violence against Palestinians.
If I don’t have a home where I can be safe, does that mean it’s OK for me to steal someone else’s? How about if I do have a home, but I want land that I feel belongs to me for religious reasons, so I’ll just take it and get the army to shoot the people who owned it if they tear down the fences I put up?
For some, the Palestinian cause is but a fig leaf behind which hides some pretty nasty anti-Semitism.
The fact that some people cant see this is an antisemitic sign is truly worrying. Antisemitism is becoming more and more mainstream..
Pinkeen, on the other hand, comments such as RJW’s above suggest that anti-semitism is still seen as unsavoury.
But its not much comfort if he can’t see it when it is waved under his nose.
The “socialism of fools” once again.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/01/radicalism-fools-rise-new-anti-semitism
There’s an old joke about the old-timer who recalls living in Europe in the 1930s and all the anti-semites told him to go to Palestine. So he went, survived WWII and grew old enough to experience being told to get out of Palestine and go back to Europe.
And for those who really don’t remember the attitude of “frank” British anti-semites on the question of Jews in Palestine even after WWII:
Stewart @19
“And for those who really don’t remember the attitude of “frank” British anti-semites on the question of Jews in Palestine even after WWII:”
That wasn’t the point of the demonstration.
Who asked the Palestinians about their attitude to colonisation of their land? They were just the ‘natives’, let them pay the bill and the West could assume the moral high ground. Never criticise Israel’s appalling behavior, that would be ‘anti-Semitic. Send in the drones if the natives get restless and then wonder why the West is hated in the ME. Oh, and if any of you anti-Semite witch hunters bothers to consult some history, you’d discover that the ‘disappearance’ of the Palestinians was always on the agenda of some Zionists prior to WW2 and probably still is.
I’d recommend “The Palestinian Disaster and its consequences” in “The Arabs” by Eugene Rogan
RJW @20
The bit about “any of you anti-Semite witch hunters” made me doubt whether serious discussion is what you’re after, but for what it’s worth, I believe neither that the Israeli government is cute and cuddly, nor that the Palestinian Arabs haven’t been let down badly by their own leadership for many decades now, nor that very real anti-Semites (or whatever you want to call people who know deep down in their guts that Jews are what’s wrong with the world) are not exploiting the situation in the Middle East for all it’s worth.
As we’re both commenting at B&W, I take it for granted that neither of us has any respect for either biblically inspired claims to territory nor for anything done in the name of Allah.
Stewart @21,
You should know that any territory that was once under Islamic domain must revert to the domain of Islam. To be otherwise – especially if controlled by the “sons of apes and pigs” – is an insult to Allah.
Helene @22
Of course I know that – doesn’t everybody? Doesn’t mean I respect it, though…
Stewart @ 21
Of course I’m interested in a serious discussion.
“As we’re both commenting at B&W, I take it for granted that neither of us has any respect for either biblically inspired claims to territory nor for anything done in the name of Allah.”
Correct, in my case, more contempt than lack of respect.
The Palestine/Israel conflict is complex. Assumptions that criticism of Israel is necessarily anti-Semitic, and that the West is in an existential struggle with the dark forces of Islam and that brave little Israel is on the front line is intellectually lazy.
Again, I’ll make the point, some commenters here don’t understand the context, one interpretation is that the placard is a protest against Israeli colonialism, Israel is nation state like any other. Indigenous people and their supporters have been wishing that the descendants of European invaders would ‘go home ‘ for some time–what’s done is done they’re not going home, and that applies to Israel as well. Many opponents of Israeli policy might indeed be anti-Semitic and critics of Islam could be racists, however unless they make an obvious declaration and without a crystal ball or a little tinfoil hat I have no idea what’s in their minds.
It’s about time people stopped shoe-horning conflicts around the world into their little neat ideological packages.
The Palestinian situation is essentially one of human rights. Before 9/11 the conflict between Uighurs and the Chinese government would have, most probably, been portrayed in the Western media as Han racism and oppression against an indigenous minority, now the Uighurs, like the Palestinians, are just Muslims.
RJW:
You seem so sure of yourself.
Therein lies your disjunction from the conversation: the sign itself is what is under discussion*, not the person holding it. Accordingly, any imputed appearance of anti-semitism therefore relates to the sign, not the person holding it.
(Would you feel comfortable holding that sign up, in that same context?)
Such pomposity!
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* Mentioning the year provided context in that tweet.
John Morales,
‘the sign itself is what is under discussion’
Yes, indeed, which is exactly my point, the sign is not necessarily anti-Semitic.
Thanks, you’ve scored another ‘own goal’.
The sign is fucking disgusting. It’s indistinguishable from any old anti-Semitic sign, so the fact that it could be explained as horrendously badly-worded protest against Israel’s brutality toward the Palestinians is irrelevant.
OK, there’s not much point In continuing this discussion.
I first encountered this “left” up close 9 years ago at a demonstration in Montreal. As the demo passed near the McGill campus, I and a Lebanese lab colleague (my mother was born in Lebanon) decided to have a closer look. I quickly noticed the signs and slogans, many carried by Québécois de souche: “Nous sommes tous Hezbollah” and “Juifs assassins”. So that sign in London doesn’t surprise me. Sadly, this is the face of the increasingly fashionable “regressive left”. This is the same left that is “not Charlie” and bans Maryam Namazie.
Yeah, those “we are Hezbollah” signs…