Funny how it turns out that something designed to stop maturity…stops maturity. Not just of the “gender” (whatever the hell that means) but of the body. The brain. Everything.
Omar
But misery always loves company. The poor people afflicted with these trans problems will often do whatever they can to spread them to others; just as if their problem was Covid-19.
Holms
I wonder if this increased reporting on real findings – from a trans-allied organisation, no less – will penetrate the screams of transphobia that always greet negative findings.
Papito
A ten year old girl has her yearly checkup. She is healthy as a horse, and hasn’t seen a doctor since last year’s checkup. She is clearly beginning puberty, perhaps Tanner stage II. The doctor asks about her diet with the goals of determining if she is eating too much junk food and sugar, is eating enough vegetables, and is getting enough calcium. Upon learning that the girl is averse to the consumption of milk, the doctor recommends the parent purchase orange juice with added calcium for her consumption, saying that this is a time when she must absorb all the calcium she can into her growing bones.
Norman Spack, an endocrinologist with America’s first gender identity clinic for children, recommends that “transgender” children be given GnRH agonists at exactly this age, 10-12 for girls, or Tanner stage II, as has become the standard recommendation for doctors involved in transing children.
At exactly the most important time to increase calcium consumption and solidify bone growth, per standard pediatric practice, the transing doctors recommend treatment that accomplishes the opposite. If the ten year old girl’s parents were to say to her pediatrician that they had no intention of providing her with enough calcium to support normal pubertal bone growth, and were in fact going to put her on a medicine that prevented her bones from growing, that doctor would likely call Child Protective Services.
Unless, of course, that medicine were given to her as part of transing.
Sastra
I have been told that taking cross-sex hormones after puberty blockers is “going through the right puberty.” And this from people who insist they’re being scientific, and I’m using the Naturalistic Fallacy.
I do not think an endocrinologist would agree. Nor do I think anyone with a scientific approach would normally think this makes sense. What I do think is that the belief that there’s a biological mismatch in the brain between apparent sex and true sex is leading to otherwise implausible assumptions on biology. They apparently imagine that the bodies of transgender people are ready and waiting for the correct hormones.
Of course, they’re also glossing over the intricacies of puberty and focusing on whatever would allow someone to “pass.”
iknklast
It seems to me that the need to take puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones flies in the face of the statement that they have always been that gender/sex/whatever the hell they call it today. If you have to mutilate your body to be what you are, that suggests you are not what you are trying to be.
Sastra
@iknklast #6:
I recently saw someone address that discrepancy by bringing up intersex, and the fact that Disorders in Sexual Development can lead to sex organs that are ambiguous. The argument seems to be:
1.) DDS shows that someone can have the wrong sex organs.
2.) GID means you have the wrong sex organs.
3.) GID is therefore like DDS.
If you would not think there’s anything amiss with an intersex female choosing to undergo an operation to make her sex organs look more female, then you should not think there’s anything amiss about a transgender ‘woman’ having an operation to make her sex organs look more female.
And if you DO think there’s anything amiss you’re an evil TERF end of story.
Acolyte of Sagan
Holms, #3:
I wonder if this increased reporting on real findings – from a trans-allied organisation, no less – will penetrate the screams of transphobia that always greet negative findings.
Probably not. The more likely outcome will be that the TRA Secret Police will investigate the personal and professional histories of the study’s authors until they find something incriminating: one may have expressed anti-abortion views 20 years ago, for example, or maybe there’s a church-goer among them, or a Conservative voter, or, well, pretty much anything they can twist into an accusation that the study is flawed because of one or more of the team was ‘clearly’ biased. If they find nothing at all, they’ll then insist that the study is flawed because none of the researchers identify as TQIA+mayo, and they are the only people qualified to run studies about trans because MUH LIVED EXPERIENCE, YA TRANSPHOBES!!!
Screechy Monkey
Gee, I hope our drive-by poster from the other thread who implied this study was a McCarthyesque invention has been able to find the study by now. “Sam” hasn’t returned to that thread, so I’m really worried….
Acolyte of Sagan
Screechy, isn’t there an old truism about dogs never returning to their own shit?
I worked for a company back in the 80s that was developing an ultrasound device to diagnose osteoporosis. It’s a wretched, debilitating disease. The bones decalcify until they crumble away, and there is nothing left to set or pin.
I remember that story — but I also “remember” that it had been written by Roald Dahl. I can even picture the book of his short stories I read it in.
How dare you deny my experience. And Ray Bradbury, too. Stop defining me out of existence.
Sastra
Heh, I see Dr. Laidlaw has specifically addressed the argument in #5 elsewhere:
There is a false claim made in the Endocrine Society’s clinical guidelines for care of gender dysphoric/gender incongruent persons which are referenced in the AAP paper [14]. The false claim is that “trans puberty” can be initiated and that one can stop the unwanted sex’s puberty, and magically start and continue the puberty of the opposite sex. There is no such thing as “trans puberty”. What happens is that the abnormal, pathologic state of hypogonadotropic hypogonadism is induced by puberty blocking medications. Then dangerous high dose hormones of the opposite sex are given to cause hirsutism (hair growth of the face, chest, back and abdomen) in females and gynecomastia (abnormal breast tissue growth) in males [15]. The medications also atrophy and chemically degrade the sex organs [16].
Comments
15 responses to “Fragile bones”
Funny how it turns out that something designed to stop maturity…stops maturity. Not just of the “gender” (whatever the hell that means) but of the body. The brain. Everything.
But misery always loves company. The poor people afflicted with these trans problems will often do whatever they can to spread them to others; just as if their problem was Covid-19.
I wonder if this increased reporting on real findings – from a trans-allied organisation, no less – will penetrate the screams of transphobia that always greet negative findings.
A ten year old girl has her yearly checkup. She is healthy as a horse, and hasn’t seen a doctor since last year’s checkup. She is clearly beginning puberty, perhaps Tanner stage II. The doctor asks about her diet with the goals of determining if she is eating too much junk food and sugar, is eating enough vegetables, and is getting enough calcium. Upon learning that the girl is averse to the consumption of milk, the doctor recommends the parent purchase orange juice with added calcium for her consumption, saying that this is a time when she must absorb all the calcium she can into her growing bones.
Norman Spack, an endocrinologist with America’s first gender identity clinic for children, recommends that “transgender” children be given GnRH agonists at exactly this age, 10-12 for girls, or Tanner stage II, as has become the standard recommendation for doctors involved in transing children.
At exactly the most important time to increase calcium consumption and solidify bone growth, per standard pediatric practice, the transing doctors recommend treatment that accomplishes the opposite. If the ten year old girl’s parents were to say to her pediatrician that they had no intention of providing her with enough calcium to support normal pubertal bone growth, and were in fact going to put her on a medicine that prevented her bones from growing, that doctor would likely call Child Protective Services.
Unless, of course, that medicine were given to her as part of transing.
I have been told that taking cross-sex hormones after puberty blockers is “going through the right puberty.” And this from people who insist they’re being scientific, and I’m using the Naturalistic Fallacy.
I do not think an endocrinologist would agree. Nor do I think anyone with a scientific approach would normally think this makes sense. What I do think is that the belief that there’s a biological mismatch in the brain between apparent sex and true sex is leading to otherwise implausible assumptions on biology. They apparently imagine that the bodies of transgender people are ready and waiting for the correct hormones.
Of course, they’re also glossing over the intricacies of puberty and focusing on whatever would allow someone to “pass.”
It seems to me that the need to take puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones flies in the face of the statement that they have always been that gender/sex/whatever the hell they call it today. If you have to mutilate your body to be what you are, that suggests you are not what you are trying to be.
@iknklast #6:
I recently saw someone address that discrepancy by bringing up intersex, and the fact that Disorders in Sexual Development can lead to sex organs that are ambiguous. The argument seems to be:
1.) DDS shows that someone can have the wrong sex organs.
2.) GID means you have the wrong sex organs.
3.) GID is therefore like DDS.
If you would not think there’s anything amiss with an intersex female choosing to undergo an operation to make her sex organs look more female, then you should not think there’s anything amiss about a transgender ‘woman’ having an operation to make her sex organs look more female.
And if you DO think there’s anything amiss you’re an evil TERF end of story.
Holms, #3:
Probably not. The more likely outcome will be that the TRA Secret Police will investigate the personal and professional histories of the study’s authors until they find something incriminating: one may have expressed anti-abortion views 20 years ago, for example, or maybe there’s a church-goer among them, or a Conservative voter, or, well, pretty much anything they can twist into an accusation that the study is flawed because of one or more of the team was ‘clearly’ biased. If they find nothing at all, they’ll then insist that the study is flawed because none of the researchers identify as TQIA+mayo, and they are the only people qualified to run studies about trans because MUH LIVED EXPERIENCE, YA TRANSPHOBES!!!
Gee, I hope our drive-by poster from the other thread who implied this study was a McCarthyesque invention has been able to find the study by now. “Sam” hasn’t returned to that thread, so I’m really worried….
Screechy, isn’t there an old truism about dogs never returning to their own shit?
This is horrible.
I worked for a company back in the 80s that was developing an ultrasound device to diagnose osteoporosis. It’s a wretched, debilitating disease. The bones decalcify until they crumble away, and there is nothing left to set or pin.
Ray Bradbury wrote a story on this theme: https://talesofmytery.blogspot.com/2013/06/ray-bradbury-skeleton.html
It’s a horror story.
@Steven # 12:
I remember that story — but I also “remember” that it had been written by Roald Dahl. I can even picture the book of his short stories I read it in.
How dare you deny my experience. And Ray Bradbury, too. Stop defining me out of existence.
Heh, I see Dr. Laidlaw has specifically addressed the argument in #5 elsewhere:
There is a false claim made in the Endocrine Society’s clinical guidelines for care of gender dysphoric/gender incongruent persons which are referenced in the AAP paper [14]. The false claim is that “trans puberty” can be initiated and that one can stop the unwanted sex’s puberty, and magically start and continue the puberty of the opposite sex. There is no such thing as “trans puberty”. What happens is that the abnormal, pathologic state of hypogonadotropic hypogonadism is induced by puberty blocking medications. Then dangerous high dose hormones of the opposite sex are given to cause hirsutism (hair growth of the face, chest, back and abdomen) in females and gynecomastia (abnormal breast tissue growth) in males [15]. The medications also atrophy and chemically degrade the sex organs [16].
http://gdworkinggroup.org/2018/10/24/the-gender-identity-phantom/
Oh, gee, doesn’t that sound appealing.