Something very fundamental
And speaking of respect and deference and magic titles and awe and majesty –
Once I stopped laughing I conceded that in one way she’s quite right. It’s a polite fiction that Choss Windsor is “The King” for the simple reason that it’s a polite fiction that anyone is “The King” or “The Queen.” Of course it is; what else would it be? It’s a hereditary monarchy, i.e. it’s an artificial social arrangement by which one particular person descended from one particular person and so on back to William or Alfred or Baby Jesus gets to be top dog and have lots of money and a Royal Train.
In another way it’s a ludicrous thing to say. There are facts about the ancestry of King Choss; what facts are there that make Dylan a woman? There are ancient social conventions about the meaning of the ancestry of King Choss; what ancient social conventions are there that make Dylan a woman? There are none! There are only some very very very new conventions which are hotly contested and extremely stupid.
And no, it’s not “kind & polite” to address people the way they ask to be addressed no matter what. It depends. Other things being equal that is of course the norm, but when other things aren’t equal it isn’t.
When I have a trans student in my class, I address them by their chosen name, and try to avoid pronouns. But nothing else changes. I still teach the realities of binary sex, and I don’t say “a woman can have a penis”. That is ridiculous.
I also address others by the name they wish to be called, even if it’s not what’s on my role. A student is free to change their name, or to go by a middle name, or just say I prefer Betty to Anne. There is no way you could make Betty short for Anne, but so what? It’s the student’s name. On the roll, though, she is still Anne, and the grade will be administered to Anne, because she is still legally Anne. If Chelsea wants to be called Ben, I’ll call her Ben. That doesn’t make her male.
Once I am away from my classroom, though, I am no longer obligated to be polite to trans, or Christians, or Republicans, or for that matter, even to my husband (though I don’t tend to be polite to him, that’s by my choice). I can laugh if I find something hilarious.
Besides, it is not being kind to force people to call someone something that goes against nature, even when it means someone is intruding in their space and putting them at risk. It is the opposite of being kind to make a woman call her rapist “she”…and also ludicrous, because “she forced her penis into me” is a truly outrageous statement.
This is really one of the more humorous absurdities to fall out the mouth of a TRA.
Young Charlie grew up imagining that he was really a commoner, just because of the body he was born in. But sometime during his twenties he realized he was really The King. So he went to the Royalty Clinic, and the kind and nobility-affirming physicians there helped him begin his transition.
Ikn, thank you for the insights. I struggle in classrooms to deal with the pronoun issues, esp for the fabled nonbinary students. I don’t mind the naming—like calling an obviously female student Matt—but “they” as address for a specific person just sounds stupid to me. “They” for unspecific persons is fine and took some time to become acceptable.
FFS, this is the same argument that gets us calling Trump the president.
The reason it’s mannerly to refer to the king as Your Majesty is not that he asks to be referred to as such. It’s because he’s the king, and that’s how we refer to the king. If he weren’t the king, we wouldn’t call him “Your Majesty”; we’d call him “You Wanker”.
Some of us would call him a wanker regardless.
That’s one of the reasons it took me a while to stop laughing. She gets so many separate bits of absurdity into that one tweet – it’s almost a talent.
Us Australians have been asked to stand as one and swear a loyalty oath to Chuck as the crown is placed upon his weary head.
In typical Australian fashion, my circle seem unanimous in declaring No way, get fucked, fuck off.
Fans of The Angels will get the reference.
Mikeb, most pronoun demands can be rendered moot by addressing them directly with second person pronouns.
Rev, but a lot less affectionately in his case.
The coronation is scheduled for 4AM my time, so I will probably be awake.
I will be on the toilet, no standing for me.
Yeah, Olivia! Think of how polite Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, and Hancock were to Triple George in 1776!
You could always avoid “misgendering” by saying “this/that narcissist” as appropriate, but that route does take a certain level of Not Giving A Fuck unattainable by most.
And what exactly does Kirstie Allsopp plan to do if I say *I* want to be addressed as the King of England? Is it then only polite to refer to me as His Majesty? Do I get to live in Buckingham Palace?
@Colin day – When Adams finally met George III, he gave him all the deference that was thought due to a King in those days.
It’s an amazingly silly comment – Charles III is a King whatever you think of hereditary monarchy as a form of government. Nor did he ask or insist against all reason to be addressed in that way, or declare himself to be king.
In earlier, more turbulent days his kingship might have been challenged by his cousin the exiled Edward or Henry and the usurper acknowledged as king – but it did take a decisive battle or two for that to be settled.
Perhaps a would-be Queen Dylan could raise an army and assert her claim to womanhood.
Well, Karen, because Kirstie is noble-phobic, she will demand to see proof of your investiture before she accepts your identity as a royal.
A more apt analogy would be that Dylan is a woman like Joshua Norton was the Emperor of the United States — a polite fiction that hundreds (perhaps thousands) of people indulged in, even took pleasure in, but which in no way reflected the reality of the political organisation of the United States in the late 1800’s.
And if, say, I want Black people to address me as ‘Massa?’
Ya that’s absolutely the kind of thing I had in mind when I said “And no, it’s not “kind & polite” to address people the way they ask to be addressed no matter what. It depends. Other things being equal that is of course the norm, but when other things aren’t equal it isn’t.”