Definitions
The Mermaids-LGB Alliance hearing resumed today.
They talk about political versus charitable, and the complexities of distinguishing between them.
MG: LGBA say gender is a construct. One needs to go beyond articles on any footing. What other material is admissable? Who is the audience to whom the article is addressed? [Bev Jackson and Kate Harris] contacted “stroppy” people re formation of LGBA.
GC views – no comprehensive definition but says sex is immutable. So people should be described with ref to their sex so male or male-bodied. Says GI orgs are homophobic. Also a view that LGB rights are not same as GI rights. The effect is to challenge or be against trans rights.
Who is the audience to whom this is addressed? The mission statement was to challenge the notion of gender and unscientific doctrines. [Allison Bailey]’s tweet encapsulates the mission of LGBA “gender extremism is about to meet its match”.
There is no single statement that shows LGBAs views – we can conclude that they go further than sex is immutable. BJ said “The word lesbian is taken”. The phrase TATG is used.
We say the articles should be read against that background. We consider that the articles are incomplete. In light of this, we say you can conclude that GC beliefs (in campaigns etc) want to change the law on policies. This would affect MM and other trans orgs. We don’t want to get into equality legislation. This is a charities case.
We should draw a distinction between what a witness says in court and what was said prior to tribunal. We say that these are expressive of LGBA views – KH speech says “[Stonewall] is at the heart of the lie of GI. We are going to campaign that confirms that there are 2 sexes.” She is talking about political lobbying. Also BJ says: “our 1st priority is to press pause on GRR in Scotland” “Our battle against Stonewall law”
It’s weird to call it “political lobbying” to say “there are two sexes.” I know why they say it, of course, but it’s weird. It’s worth reminding ourselves of how weird it is.
“MM accepts that a human rights charity is acceptable. On the other hand if they focus on a small group then there is no benefit. The question comes down to: what are their true purposes? Does a sufficient number of the public need LGBA? ”
Not sure I’m following this comment, do a sufficient number of the public need mermaids? There must be more gay people than people that use hormones and surgery to imitate the opposite sex.
bascule
I think you’re following it just fine. Those are relevant questions. Mermaids of course wants us all to think there are millions of trans people and that they have new but absolute rights no matter what the impact on other people may be.
You know, Jews are a small group in most countries…probably in a lot of countries, smaller than the LGB population. Does that mean groups that protect the rights of Jews aren’t really legitimate as charities because they only protect the rights of a small group of people?
That is a terrible argument! It is the small groups of people that most need their rights protected.
Without the forced teaming, the “community” becomes a much smaller group, if the LGB pick up their ball and go home. Ditto if disphoric children recieve
conversiontalk therapy, and watchful waiting instead of puberty blockers* (which usually lead to wrong-sex hormones**.) Most will desist, because they’re gay boys and lesbian girls, not “trans.” If this means they are happier and healthier, then good. Is this the sort of thing the LGBA is working for? My guess would be “Yes.” But keeping childrenout of the clutches of Mermaidsoff the trans fast-track reduces Mermaids’ potential clientelle, making it very much smaller than it is now. By Mermaids logic, they’d have to close up shop. Maaaybe there’s bit of conflict of interest here?* Which are not a “recersable ” “pause button.” There is no such thing as going through the “wrong” puberty. Anyone telling you otherwise has something to sell you, or is recruiting you. They do not have your best interests at heart. Unless you happen to have some sort of disease or disorder, you go through the one puberty your body has always been aiming for. It knows what it’s doing. If you think you know better than your body, try taking charge of breathing, or digestion.
** So-called “cross-sex” hormones ARE wrong sex hormones. Language, people, language. We’re not swapping items of clothing, but fucking around with the chemical regulators that oversee the growth and maintenance of adult human bodies. Would you trust a mechanic who swapped brake fluid for anti-freeze, calling it “cross fluid” service?
What’s TATG?
maddog1129, I’m pretty sure it stands for “Trans Away the Gay”.