We were exasperated by his abuse of us

The futility of arguing with people who believe in nonsense: Michael Gibbon KC, Counsel for Mermaids, asking questions of Bev Jackson of LGBA:

MG: Only a few questions left. Turn to disagreement with Mr Nicholson. He gave evidence that LGBA denigrated people and organisations that support trans rights.

BJ: yes that was his evidence. 

MG: People were invited to make donations in Nicolson’s name, April 2021. See eg tweets here, by LGBA. Thank a JE for donation, she calls Nicolson a misogynist homophobe. Not a sensible thing to do. 

BJ: Agree not sensible, would say mischievous. We were exasperated by his abuse of us. I believe a couple of people donated in his name and we then mentioned this and encouraged. I agree not very sensible. Was light-hearted.

MG: I would say inflammatory.
BJ: DIsagree, because JN had abused us first.
MG: There is a chronology by Mr Hewitt but not put to JN bcs after his evidence.
BJ: Not so; it had been written up long before that.

MG: Not put to JN.

BJ: He had every opportunity to do so, was published openly.

I don’t know what that part means.

MG: JN was the object of this, his evidence must be preferred?

BJ: No, we were the object of JN’s abuse.

MG: I restate, inflammatory – not mischievous or light-hearted. 

I say JN is correct, he was bombarded by abuse because of LGBA encouragement.

BJ: Completely disagree. 

Honestly. Poor poor John Nicolson, the venomous abusive rude MP who shouts at lesbians who don’t agree that men are women.

MG: Again re JN – page 1290.

Begins “Dear Boris”. Second paragraph – says would you would be surprised to hear lesbians are harassed & accused of transphobia if they refuse sex with male bodies if they “identify” as women. I say, prejudicial language by not saying “trans”
BJ: Not sure what you mean
MG: should have said trans women.

Oh there it is – you’re not allowed to say they’re men who identify as women, you have to say trans women.

BJ: I think our language is clearer. Many people think “trans woman” means someone has had surgery, no penis, so our language is clearer. 

MG: why quotes round “identifies as”? 

BJ: because “identifies as” isn’t clear, it is jargon.
MG: you are saying TW are men.
BJ: no am saying transwomen are transwomen. It is clearer.

And besides, “trans women” are men.

It’s so religion-like, so theocratic, this forcing people to lie about reality.

MG: You say LGBA is not a single issue org. I say it is, the single issue is gender-critical, opposing gender identity ideology

BJ: Disagree

MG: only purpose of LGBA.

BJ: Disagree completely.

In a way it seems foolish for Michael Gibbon to press this point, because it amounts to saying lesbians and gay men can’t have anything just for lesbians and gay men, it’s saying they have to team with trans people in everything. I’m not sure that take is as popular as he (or Mermaids) thinks it is.

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